Citizen ATX
Citizen ATX
Seeing The Unseen | Spiritual Gifts
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Spiritual gifts are real and biblical, but often unclear and confusing to us. In today's episode, Jonathan, Matt, and Lauren walk us through a practical definition of what spiritual gifts are. How and when do we get them? How do we discover what spiritual gifts we were given? Additionally, we walk you through a list of several spiritual gifts that a Christian may have that are purposeful for glorifying God and edifying the Church.
Hello there and welcome to the Citizen ATX Podcast. My name is Matt Gillum. We are excited to be with you today as we are continuing our series, Seeing the Unseen. And today in the studio or theater or whatever you would call this room that we're in, with me today is Lauren Ortiz and Jonathan Spencer. Hello, y'all. What's going on? What is going on, Jonathan, is we're talking about gifts, right? It is Christmas in September. We are talking about spiritual gifts. This is one of the things that you may, if you've been in the church world before, you may have heard this mentioned in passing. But it is something that tends to be a little bit unclear when we're when we're actually talking, getting down to the nuts and bolts of what spiritual gifts are and how they work. And so, first of all, Jonathan, I think we gotta we gotta start, let's start with some definitions, right? Sure. So what is a spiritual gift?
SPEAKER_03There's probably better, more academic definitions, but what we were talking about this of just trying to say something simple that it's a Holy Spirit-given gift and ability that brings glory to God and builds up the church. Or another way you could put it is it's a Holy Spirit gift that helps us fulfill the Great Commission because Jesus sent us all on a mission of discipleship and evangelism. So uh yeah, I think that'd probably be a simple starting point.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's something that that originates outside of ourselves from the person of God, but then is used for the specific function of carrying out the kingdom. I think those are important, there's important things in that. Number one, that we're not, it's not something that we've ginned up or um we watched a video on and all of a sudden we have that talent, or um and then on the same on the same hand, um, these gifts are not designed just to park it in our our hearts or to be a a badge that we wear, but that it is designed for an action, for a movement, um, that there is activity as a part of it.
SPEAKER_04So we get them by God. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01Well, scripture would say that it comes at the time that the Holy Spirit comes to a person.
SPEAKER_03Um, and then on top of that, I'll say scripture also says that we should pray for even greater gifts. It says you can that. So I believe it's kind of twofold. You receive it through the Holy Spirit's empowerment. Everybody as a born-again believer has the Spirit of God in them, which means they are then uh equipped with at least one gift. Many times it's more than that, but everybody has at least one. But we can get into that more later in the pragmatic stuff. I think I think people can get more. My my opinion on biblical teaching is that that you that you steward what you have, and that whole Matthew 25 principle of when you steward what you have well, God tends to give you more. And I think that principle also actually applies into the spiritual realm and to the gifts. Uh, and and that's why I think Paul tells us that we should pray for those greater gifts. But to answer your question, if you're a born-again believer, you've got at least one in you. Um, and I'll even read a couple verses to kind of I guess, I guess, point to that. In Ephesians chapter 4, verse 7, we're told, but grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ's gift. Therefore it says, when he ascended on high, he led a host of captives and he gave gifts to man. So that's the idea is that Jesus went to heaven, he sent the Spirit down to us as believers, and with that he's equipped us with gifts to fulfill his purposes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I would use the example too, uh, even from like the um the three kings, um, when they gave gifts, they were things that were designed to be used, right? Um, and that the best gifts that you're gonna get in your life are gonna be the things that are useful that you can that you can apply to different to live like getting a baseball bat. That's that's a great gift. Yeah, um, but that that is kind of the design of it, that it's designed to to honor the the giver, um, which would really make a lot of sense in the context of uh where Jesus was was serving and where Paul was serving when he when he uh when he writes a lot of the New Testament. And so yeah, I I I believe the win of it generally I mean it at least generates and starts at the moment of salvation. When a person when a person confesses with their mouth that Jesus is Lord is and believes in their heart that God raised him from the dead, that they are then saved. And the statement is that at the at the moment of salvation, that's when the Holy Spirit enters a person. Uh which I know sometimes we get hung up on the spatial things of that about like where does he go or whatever. But it it is that it is this idea of Jesus uh of the Holy Spirit inhabiting us as God with us as our advocate and helper. Um and so yeah, I think that that to answer your question, at the moment of salvation, there there you begin to where with the Holy Spirit's present, it's you begin to have those gifts, if that makes sense. Um so yeah.
SPEAKER_04Okay, okay. So what are they? What are the gifts? Uh I know it's referenced in in multiple across multiple areas in scripture. And so if you had to like condense them down, what what are they?
SPEAKER_03Well, I think what might be helpful is maybe even if we go through these kind of one at a time, um, and this will take a little time if you all think that's a good idea, but I think and and just if you're listening to us, this this list is a cumulative list of gifts that cross-intersect over really four different areas of the Bible in 1 Corinthians 12, Romans 12, uh, 1 Peter 4, and Ephesians 4. Those are kind of the four texts in the New Testament that speak towards spiritual gifts. And so the list I'm I'm basing this off of is really a cumulative list, uh kind of pulling those because some of them say some of these, some of them don't. Uh so some of them are on multiple lists, some of them are only on one. Uh but this list is kind of a comprehensive New Testament list. And so the first one that that's listed, this is actually in Romans 12, 8, is leadership. Uh and leadership to give you a little definition, I'm actually reading this from a uh worksheet here that I'm borrowing off of, but it but it's leadership aids the body by leading and directing members to accomplish the goals and purposes of the church. And leadership motivates people to work together in unity toward common goals. Um, so that is a spiritual gift that that some would receive. And maybe even right now we might even just pause and kind of this might be a good moment to talk about, and Matt will ask you this question. Is so leadership is a spiritual gift, but obviously there's a million people on planet earth with leadership too. So um, how would you, I guess, qualify the difference between those?
SPEAKER_01I think the the burden on us is to discern between talent and and spiritual gift, right? Um when we when we talk about talents, these are things that we generally just as people are better at. Like um, I if I have a talent for throwing a baseball, it doesn't really have anything to do with a spiritual gift, it just kind of is part of my physical body. Um the the nature of a spiritual gift is that it's something that transcends you as just your own talents and abilities. It's uh as we made mention of earlier in the definition, it has to come from something greater and it has to, and then most uh just as importantly, it has to produce an effect. Right. Um I would argue that when we think that we're if we think that we're practicing out spiritual gifts, but there's no fruit from it and there's no effect from it, we can rightly question is that really a spiritual gift of the Holy Spirit flowing through my life? Yeah. Um, because what it says is, you know, God's word doesn't come back to him void. And um, and so with that, so like for instance in leadership, um, a person can be a leader, but they can lead people in an absolutely wrong way for their own glory or narcissism. Yeah. Um, or they can be a leader that the Holy Spirit has gifted in such a way to to maneuver the people of God toward God's purposes. Exactly. And um, and it has and it has to be something that's bigger than just the persuasiveness or charisma of the person.
SPEAKER_03And I think that part, what you said right there, of it's moving God's people to his purposes is critical because um sometimes, like I'll I'll illustrate, like I've known people, good Christian men and women for that matter, that have been in churches that have been leaders in the community in whatever field they're in, and they're good people, they're not necessarily narcissistic leaders or negative leaders, like you're saying. I would call them good leaders in their arena of whatever of life, but they're not really good church leaders. Like I wouldn't say they have the spiritual gift of leadership, and the reason why is they they don't have that vision and ability to carry people towards something that God is leading them to do, um, that he hasn't qualified them that way. Like I've seen people that are in arenas successful in some leadership in an area of life that no one will follow them in a church, just to be honest. And and so um that's why it doesn't just translate, well, well, I lead a business, so I should lead this in church. Well, it doesn't always work that way. Right. Um, and so that that's where the discernment comes of uh of how do you differentiate the two? Because as we go through this list, I wanted to stop and kind of have this discussion because you're gonna see this happen on almost every one of these, where you could pull up a secular definition as well, and it's not the exact same as as the spiritual.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that's the I think the job of the church is to protect itself a little bit, um, to re to really discern together who who these people are and how God is moving in the context of your congregation. So, like what what's next on our list?
SPEAKER_03So the next one is administration, and and a working definition here is that it's persons with the gift of administration lead the body of Christ by steering them to remain on task. Uh, and an administration enables the body to organize according to God's given purposes and long-term goals. And an example we used, even though it's a it's an old testament example, but we gave an example of Nehemiah uh being a great administrator in the scriptures, that he was able to lead people and have the vision of the task, but also enable them to work together in unity to fulfill that. Um so yeah, so administration is the next one.
SPEAKER_01And it goes kind of beyond just being an organized organized organized, or an organized person. Because I mean there are there are obviously a lot, there are multitudes of people in the world who are excellent managers and and budget makers and administrators and all that kind of stuff. But again, the the the onus of this is on um are you uh administrating the people of God moving forward in a in the same direction? I I don't like putting myself out there for this, but administration is one of the gifts that I have. And as my wife has reminded me about 60 times in the last three days, I am not a detail-oriented person. Uh I tend to skip over things, but the where the administration part comes is that when uh where where God has gifted me is that where there's a where there's a vision, I have the ability to begin moving people in the direction that they need to go so that it can so that the so that the thing happens. And so it's different than just administrating and planning and organizing a good a good plan. Right. It's the it's the maneuvering of it, it's the and it's the accomplishing of it. Yep. And so um that was a conversation we had off-air and where we were talking about some of these that kind of uh relate to each other, and that there's a there's a talent for being organized, but that's not the same as being having the spiritual gift of admin of the right and it might be helpful for us to be more specific, the administration of the people of God. Yes, exactly. And um and so, yeah, that's that's how I would see that play.
SPEAKER_03And also, I will throw this a little bit of a rabbit trail, but I think administration is a good example. Within the church, also, we're called to do things that we're not gifted in. So to you use even that example of administration, um, like in the church, our staff, some of us, you being an example, are given that spiritual gift of administration to use for the building up of the church. Now, if there's someone else on our staff who doesn't have that gift, and there's many that don't, I still expect them to administrate the affairs of the church. Like they have to do the job. Like so, so some of these things, too, I think it's important for us to go through these that that some of these things are natural gifts that God has put into our heart through his Holy Spirit, but there's also some of these are just things you gotta do sometimes just by the grace of God through through your your uh innate ability and just discipline. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I do see, I still think that you have that that that gen the genesis of the um the Holy Spirit doing it and then toward toward the people of God. So I agree. What do we got next?
SPEAKER_03So the next one, another good one, controversial one, teaching. So teaching, uh it's instructing members in the truths and doctrines of God's word for the purposes of building up, unifying, and maturing the body. And I actually liked that definition right there because a lot of people, Matt, and I've I've I obviously do teach, but I've also taught a lot of teachers as well within Bible study classes and chosen teachers and honestly benched teachers. I've I've done a lot of that too, where a lot of people think they're teachers just because they feel like they have something to say. Like they feel like they have knowledge, and because they have knowledge, therefore they're gifted with teaching. But to me, you're only a teacher if people actually learn from you. And I think that's such an important part.
SPEAKER_01It's got to be effectiveness. And there's a there are other gifts in there. I know uh it's I is I think study is one or wisdom. Knowledge and wisdom, they gotta be two separate ones. But the uh and wisdom being different, but I I think a lot of people say, hey, I read the Bible a lot, I go to a lot of Bible studies, I know a lot about the Bible, so therefore I should be qualified as a teacher. I mean, you know, some of the best teachers that I've had in my life, and this this I guess kind of uh muddies it a little bit, but they're people who communicate the truth well in in a way that I can understand. Yep. So that in a to an uh an effect, uh I think people say, well, because I can talk on this high level about these different knowledge things and use big terms and definitions, that makes me a teacher. The reality is the best teachers are the ones who make that high-level information available and uh impactful and effective for the people who are learning. And so again, it comes down to does the spiritual gift bear fruit? Because why would the Holy Spirit have it give a gift that doesn't? Um so yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_03And I think also I'll add a couple things. Some of the best, most gifted teachers are ones that don't have platforms. And I think I think that's the other mistake with this gift is that if I have this gift, that means I'm supposed to have an audience. I'm supposed to have a large group that I'm gonna speak to, where some of the most gifted teachers I've known lead Bible studies with three people. Yeah. Um, and and they and they teach in their home to their children. And there's there's there's all kinds of ways to exercise that gift. But I think it's also this is one of the most difficult gifts to discern because I think everybody has an expectation that if I have this gift, I should therefore have a big audience or I should have a platform, which really, if that's the purpose and intention of your heart, it's no longer being an exercise spiritual gift because it's about your own glorification and not the glorification of God and the good of people. Um, so that teaching's a difficult one because everybody wants to have it because it's a public gift. Um, but I also think it's it's a rare gift if I'm being candid too. I think I think that God gives it to some people, uh, but not many. That's why James says not many of you ought to be teachers because you're held to a higher standard. So next one is knowledge. And we kind of alluded to this a second ago, but the gift of knowledge manifests itself in teaching and training and discipleship, but it's a God-given ability to learn, know, and explain the truths of God's word. So um some people I will say, Matt, and and uh there's some even right here in this room and beyond in our church, but but people that that just know the word of God. I mean, they just they know it. And uh, and and it comes to heart and the right word is given there where they have an ability to retain, but also be able to uh bring that teach or that knowledge to real life in people's lives.
SPEAKER_01And I think that's another one that's that's uh so important to make a difference of because there are there are secular scholars who know the Bible back and forth and can tell you the Greek and the Hebrew and all that kind of stuff. There's gonna be a commonality between all of these spiritual gifts that I that I relate to what uh Jeremiah says, where it's it's like a fire in my bones. I I tried to shut it up, but I can't because it's it it has to be uh be played out. Um and so with knowledge, I I honestly I would see this as the people that when they're presented with information, they they are able to present it uh to take that and explain it. Like it said in the definition. Um it's it's and it's pushing beyond where everybody everybody else's uh understanding of it is and trying to learn on bad on behalf of others. I that's that's kind of how I see that that happening. Um because like like for instance, for people that I think have the Holy Spirit, uh the spiritual gift of knowledge, when they go to learn things, they don't learn it just for their own good or for their own puffed up puffing up or building up, but they're learning it because if I learn this thing, then I can use it to build up the body of Christ. And by by our people knowing this, by me making this effort to go and learn it, then they're gonna be built up as a result. So I absolutely it's it's a different thing from going and attaching degrees to yourself and on and on.
SPEAKER_03Well, and it and it leads in also to the next gift because it's kind of the cousin of knowledge is wisdom. And the two of the two of those kind of get sometimes blurred together, but wisdom is a separate gift. Uh that's listed in 1 Corinthians 12, 28, and wisdom is the gift that discerns the work of the spirit in the body and applies his teachings and actions to the needs of the body. That's the definition I read there. Uh, I I always define wisdom as the rightful application of knowledge. So it's it's knowing how to take that truth, but then apply it to people's lives in a real, uh, everyday scenario. And that and I think God's given a lot of people wisdom. I mean, you think about Solomon, and once again using an Old Testament example, he asked for that gift, uh, and God granted that to him because he knew he could not lead without it. Uh, and so wisdom is is a gift that I think God gives people uh so that they can not just know what's right, but also how to apply that right knowledge, uh, and it's a critical gift to the church.
SPEAKER_01And uh one one great, I think, biblical example of this is from uh First Chronicles in the in the Old Testament, where it talks about the group of the men of Issachar, and the way they're they're described is uh as I'm trying to find the best translation of it here. Um but it says of Issachar are men who had understanding of the times to know what Israel ought to do, 200 chiefs and all their kinsmen under their command. So that the uh the idea of what wisdom is is um knowing what to do, right? And and and these are gonna be people in your congregation who, when presented with with differing opinions or strategies or things like that, can rightly discern, hey, this is the right way to go. And it's not based off of how we can strategically you know gain more money for the church or more people or something like that, but it's the wisdom of we're this is what is this is where the spirit's guiding us so that we can be aligned with his direction. Yep. And so um, yeah, that I mean that's it's it's a very wisdom's a very practical one.
SPEAKER_03I agree. Um I agree. And the next one uh on our list is prophecy. And the gift of prophecy is is a tricky one because we'll we'll talk even next week. I will preface this by saying next week we're gonna talk about more of the sign gifts and some of the difficult ones, some that are not even on this list because they're kind of debated, contested gifts, if you will. Prophecy is on this list because of the definition that we'll be working with, but the gift of prophecy is proclaiming the word of God boldly. Uh, this builds up the body and leads to the conviction of sin. And prophecy manifests itself in preaching and teaching. And those citations are found in 1 Corinthians 12 10 and Romans 12.6. So, Matt, how how would you, I guess, explain that, expound on that definition, if you will, and differentiate it from what people think of when they hear the word prophecy.
SPEAKER_01Well, when we think of the word prophecy, we think of the magic eight ball guy who's who who can tell you that it's gonna rain next week or you know what what all you know what's gonna happen in the future. Um, that definition particularly sounds like the Greek word keruso, which is the proclamation of the word. I think one of the things that's important for us to to note in this though is that is that difficulty of understanding what's the difference between preaching and teaching. Yeah. Uh we do tend to say, hey, uh preachers are teachers, they do the same thing. I would argue that the big di the biggest difference is that the design of preaching is preaching is designed to convict people of sin and to and to share the gospel with people and to clarify the word of God. Teaching is designed to talk about it. Yeah. Um preaching is designed to um to know it, to feel it, and to receive it. Um and so by that definition, prop uh the modern day spiritual gift of prophecy would be a preacher. I agree. Would be the spiritual gift of preaching.
SPEAKER_03I agree. And I and I would and I would, since you're sharing your gifts, I would say I do have a gift of prophecy that people have spoken into me. And I don't mean that in the weird hyper-spiritual way of I have some new word from the Lord, uh, because I don't, I only have the word revealed through scripture. But but what the gift of prophecy is is you that God gives, I believe, people that gift where they have that word, but they they rightfully apply it to people in in situations and times. And then God uses that gift to bring conviction of sin, uh, and then a call to action, of an exhortation of some kind where the where they are being called to change, to repent and press forward in faith. And prophecy, I think, uh, is an important gift. It's essential for the church for the advancement of the gospel, but it also is a misconstrued one, this idea of preaching and stuff. Because same thing, I think some people think they have a gift of preaching or prophecy because they have a dynamic voice or communication skills. But some of the most empty preaching in the world are preachers that that may have a smooth uh uh voice and can share some stories and laughs and and gather a crowd, but they lack the power that comes from God's God's voice through them. So it's important to distinguish that.
SPEAKER_01And that is there is a an element of danger that goes into it because uh in the Bible, when prophecy is mentioned, the the very word prophecy is speaking on behalf of God. That's really that's really the the simplest um uh definition of it. In the Old Testament, if you claim to be a prophet and any and it says, and if any of your words fell to the ground, then you were to be executed. Yeah because that was blasphemy, that was putting words in God's mouth. And so uh the that's why in preaching it's so important that the that the preacher is speaking the word of God and what its intention is, what the Holy Spirit is is saying through it, because there is danger there of placing ourselves as the mouthpiece of God and saying something that He did not say or that He did not mean.
SPEAKER_03And that happens honestly in a lot of churches around the country. So it's it's an important one, even if, in other words, if you don't have that gift and you're listening to me, it's still important that you consider well, who do you fall under that you listen to? In preaching, because we're all called ultimately to sit under the preaching and teaching of God's word. So as you're listening to this list, not don't only consider what do you have, but also consider who are you listening to and letting guide you and making sure that they are exercising these gifts properly. So the next one, this is all kind of falls in the same camp as discernment. And discernment is kind of akin to wisdom, but it's a little different. The definition to work here is discernment aids the body by recognizing the true intentions of those within or related to the body. And I think that is such an important gift because, in other words, to put it in simple terms, discernment is being able to see things for as they really are. That sometimes in church, in particular, and Paul actually talks about this, how there'll be wolves in sheep clothing. He talks about that in Acts 20, and how we're supposed to test the spirits, he actually says, that there's this constant act of discernment that is necessary in the church because people come to church candidly with agendas and all kinds of different purposes. And what you see on the outside is not always what's true on the inside, but God, because he loves his people, his sheep, he gives leaders some discernment to help help distinguish that and discern uh not just what is good, but what's right. You know, what what what is the truth?
SPEAKER_01And I think it does bear mentioning here that this is not the same thing as being a naturally negative or cynical person. Oh no, it's not because there's a there are a lot of people in the church who are really glad to bring up all the negative things. A lot of people have the gift of jadedness and the gift of telling you that's not good quality coffee. I can discern that these beans came from I know I got anything to stop.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that's yeah, we can definitely discern good coffee. We don't need a spiritual kit for that one. Wait, so I have a question about discernment. Yeah. Um talk to me a little bit more about it. Like, what happens? Okay, so like can discernment be a feeling?
SPEAKER_03No.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_03Not not only a feeling. Now feelings, emotions carry into everything. That's just tied, like that's tied into us. I mean, we have mind, body, and spirit all working together in us just as human beings, and God put those things in us, but discernment's not a feeling, because I would put that into uh uh the emotive realm, and and and these are in the spiritual realm of gifts, but at the same time, uh, you know, it's sometimes hard to distinguish those two. Um but but we have to be careful because also a lot of a lot of uh teaching around the world is to follow your gut, um, do what you feel. Yeah, and and the Bible says the opposite. The Bible says in Proverbs 14, 12 that there's a way that seems right to man, it leads to death. Uh and Jeremiah 17, 9 says that the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately sick. So discernment's not just a feeling, the feelings are inadequate. That can't lead us to the right decisions. It has to be spiritual, God-given. And and I I will say, I think the mark of every great leader and pastor in the world in the spiritual realm, they have a gift of discernment in there. Even if it's not their number one gift, they have to have it because they can't they can't shepherd without it, because you have to have the spiritual, God-given ability to see things that in some ways others can't see, to see the truth of what's behind things.
SPEAKER_01And I would say either them or someone who's a close advisor to be able to test that.
SPEAKER_03I would agree, but I think I and I and I obviously say this as a senior pastor and from my seat, but I think I think if you're going to be an effective leader of your church or ministry for that matter, but but something that's moving God's people, you have to have some form of a gift of discernment. Uh and I think, and I I won't speak for the Lord that He does give that to every person. I don't know that. Uh and the Bible doesn't say that. But I uh just the people that I I've encountered with of spiritual leaders of large ministries and movements of God, they seem to have usually some form of discernment in them. Yeah. And and that's partly why their ministries have flourished, I guess, is my point, is because they've had discernment to help make those right choices when other people can't see it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because sometimes that's going to be deciding not between good and bad, but between good and good. Exactly. Or better, better and good. Yeah. Um now, and one thing I do want to bring up in that is that um, you know, the Greek word I think for the the non-spiritual gift of discernment is the heebie-jeebies.
SPEAKER_04You know, I'm like, what happens if I get a bit bad vibe from someone?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, if you get a bad vibe from someone, then maybe your mama raised you right. Really kind of what it is. But I mean, uh, remember that the each of these spiritual gifts are designed for the building up of the people of God specifically. And so uh more so this will relate to people who are false teachers or people who are going or who are actively trying to take advantage of the church, not a guy who's creeping on all the single ladies at the church. That's which again, don't be a single guy and creeping on the ladies at the church.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's a good word. All right, we'll keep pressing to the next one, which is exhortation. Uh, and exhortation, possessors of this gift, encourage members is really a key word, to be involved in and enthusiastic about the work of the Lord and members with this gift or good counselors and motivate others to service. So exhortation is is that call to action. It's really that encouragement of calling the people of God to something that is going to be for the good of God and the good of others, which is a gift because to call people to to do something uh that is right and good and to have enthusiastic about that calling. Sometimes that's hard. It's it's I guess exhortation. I've always thought of it, Matt, as like an amped up encouragement gift. Um is probably the way is the way I look at it.
SPEAKER_01I think it uh it's kind of I guess actually akin to discernment and that it's that you see in I guess it's I I see it as the positive side of discernment where it's the I see this talent or this uh direction in you, and now I'm going to I'm going to equip and encourage and and even to an extent push you to do it. Um that's one that that's a great gift, spiritual gift for leaders to have because that's the way that that others find theirs. A lot of times um a someone who has the gift of exhortation will be the one who goes and finds somebody and then brings them into ministries that they're gonna be effective at. Uh in scripture, it's Barnabas. Yeah. Um and one of the things that we have to you know differentiate here too, and I love doing this in each of these ones, but um exhortation is not the same as saying, You're having a good hair day, or I want you to feel good about you. Yeah. It sometimes exhortation is not a nice thing to say, where it's hey, you should be te you should I have observed in you that you have a spirit that would teach well in youth, and you are able to impart truth well to students. You're not doing that right now. You need to go do it. And uh there is a a spirit of conviction in what exhortation calls.
SPEAKER_03And what's amazing is people that have that gift of exhortation, people listen to them. Because usually the exhortation is not something that in your flesh you would actually receive from a normal person, but because the gift is spiritual in nature and God does work through it, people will call out, they'll exhort someone else using that gift, and the person will actually respond, like they'll do what the uncomfortable thing, um, which is a great gift to the church because, like you said, it's uh helping push people forward to become really what God's called them to be. Yeah, um, the next gift is shepherding, and the gift of shepherding is manifested in persons who look out for the spiritual welfare of others. Uh, although pastors like shepherds do care for the members of flock, this gift is not limited to a pastor of staff. And I would say yes and amen on that. Um, some of the best shepherds, I think spiritual gifted shepherds we have in our church, uh I think it's men and women that care for one another. Um, like I am a shepherd, I'm called to that office of a shepherd, and I do care for people, but just to be candid, I would not say that's my primary gift. Um, I do love people, so I hope you don't take that the wrong way. That's if you're listening to me. But yeah, Jonathan hates people. Yeah, exactly. But but but but but I but I will say there's people better than me at that, which I just know that I watch it in our church. Yeah, that that truly like they live and breathe and they think and they pray, and all day, every day, they can't help it. They are just loving on and leading people constantly. And it's not because they're more holy, it's because God's put that gift in them and and they've been called to that service.
SPEAKER_01And they have the ability to keep it all together, right? Like I'm thinking of one specific person in this church that if anybody's ever sick, he's the one who knows about it. And he's and he's the one that's visiting and he's the one that's telling us as staff of, hey, you know, this is happening with this person. Same guy would be the last person who would want to get up and do a sermon in front of people, but he loves and cares about people and and he doesn't and he doesn't do it for self-gain or just because he just because he cares about people, which he does. But there isn't the spirit gives this gift of understanding for the good of the body of the church. There have to be people who watch the flock and who make who make sure that when one is in need, that they can be pulled out and and helped. Yeah. Um, and in the same way, they they're also oftentimes the ones that see danger and go and warn others of, hey, this is something that's trying to get into the flock. This is a false teaching that started to develop. Right. And uh and so really it's these people who have this drive, the spirit-given drive to care for other people. And so yeah.
SPEAKER_03I agree. And and they and shepherd people that are have that gift of shepherding, they're great gifts, they're great blessings to shepherds, to those that are in the office, because ultimately there's too many sheep and there's too many needs for one shepherd to care for, and that's why God gave many in the flock that gift of shepherding to help their shepherd uh in their local church.
SPEAKER_01You'll see a lot of chaplains and counselors with this with this gift because they they are more about care than they are than they tend to be about proclamation and exhortation.
SPEAKER_03Yep, absolutely. So the next gift is faith, which is an interesting one because you're like, don't we all have that? Which yes, I hope you do. But but faith trusts God to work beyond the human capabilities of the people. And believers with this gift encourage others to trust in God in the face of apparently insurmountable odds. And and I've I've seen that gift in many other people. When I think of this gift, I think of people that are just steadfast. It doesn't matter what happens, what obstacles come, hardships, suffering, turmoil, they're just steady. Like they they don't move and and they rub off on other people because their faith is so strong. And uh, I will also say it doesn't mean uh that that if uh you have doubts and you do crumble a little bit, that you lack faith. You know, we we we sometimes struggle, all of us in the church, even though we carry faith, we struggle with doubts and and struggles and turmoil, but that's why God gave us people gifted with that gift of faith, because it helps just bolster us up, build us back up in those moments.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, and it is it these are people that will draw others to them for that mission. I I think in the context of our our church, there was a a really sweet lady who uh for years was bound to a wheelchair um she had had cancer, destroyed her spine, and she couldn't she never walked again. But the lady was one that when when anyone had doubt or anyone had pain or fear, they were drawn to her because she was the one who could say who could speak of you know the faithfulness of God and what her faith was that God was going to do. Um you see a lot of times your prayer warriors are these kinds of people that they they just they they tend to be the confidence for people, really. Um and and it does bear mentioning that in this list there are gonna be some things that are common to all Christians. All Christians should have faith. Yeah, but the the the act of faith, the spiritual gift of faith is more of the acting out of it for the again for the good of the body.
SPEAKER_03That's right. So next one is evangelism and evangelism, same thing, yeah. Same thing, which is a great segue, because yeah, once again it's something we're called to do, but regardless. But in this sense of this gift, um, God gifts his church with evangelists to lead others to Christ effectively and enthusiastically, and this gift builds up the body by adding new members, new believers, and the fellowship. And so to that same point, you know, we're all called to evangelism, we're all called to be a part of the Great Commission. But God, I mean, frankly, he gives some people the ability that they they just lead people to Christ easier than others. I mean, I can I've seen it both in interpersonal evangelism where I've known people that just seem to lead people to Christ in their workplace neighborhoods, wherever they are. It just almost seems like they're not even having to work for it. And they are working for it, but it's just that it's just that God's given them an ability, He's given them a gift uh to help build up the church. And same thing with preachers. Some preachers are really their greater gift is evangelism, and and that comes out in the tone of their preaching that really they're they're calling people to repentance and faith in Christ. And they're the ones that lead, you know, those massive events where you just see tons of people making decisions for Christ. And some pastors might lead lead services and stuff where it doesn't happen. It doesn't mean they're not qualified preachers, they just might not have that same gift of evangelism that someone else may.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I would agree. It's an ex it's an accelerated thing of it. Uh, and the and the difference between the call to all Christians to evangelize, but not all Christians to be evangelists, where that is the defining character of what they do for the church and what they what and frankly, it's the kind of thing that gets them up in the morning. Like that they are already thinking, Who am I going to share Christ with today? Yeah. Um, and again, that fire that comes up out of the bones, you you can't help it. It's the overflow. Um, so yeah, what what we got next?
SPEAKER_03Next one is a controversial one, apostleship. Now, this word would not necessarily be on everybody's list, and we'll we'll explain it in a moment. It does come from the scriptures in 1 Corinthians 12, 28 and Ephesians 4, 11, but the working definition we'll go with is the church sends this our key word, yeah, apostles from the body to plant churches or be missionaries. And apostles motivate the body to look beyond its walls in order to carry the Great Commission. So, to kind of give you a little bit extra commentary to that, if someone's gifted with the gift of apostleship, they are not an apostle in the New Testament sense. Capital A. Yes. Like those are positions of authority. Those who walked with Christ, they had apostolic authority, and they've all come and gone. There are no more apostles in that sense. Now, the gift of apostleship, as defined by this, means uh people have been given a gift to send in some ways to following the footsteps of those earlier apostles, that they are senders by nature. They're great organizers, they're great at church planning and missionaries and activating uh areas of movement uh by by equipping and sending out uh new new ministries and churches.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think the the big uh definition there is that this is not an opportunity for a preacher to call himself an apostle so that nobody can challenge his authority. Exactly. Um it it is this idea if that's if it's the definition that we're following in it, is of pushing out into areas that have not been gone to before. Exactly. Because of that scent nature. And the you know, this thing can this can be warped sometimes by people who just want to be on the cutting edge of things or um or are looking for kind of support and things like that. But ultimately, it's the kind of people who have to go and do and and be the gospel in in a context other than the one that they're coming from.
SPEAKER_03Yep. So absolutely. Next one is service slash helps on this list, which by the way, we're we're working off a life weight list. I don't know if I gave it credit, but uh for what it's worth, this is just a compilation of these, doesn't mean they're perfect definitions. But for service slash helps, uh the definition they gave is those with the gift of service slash help uh recognize practical needs in the body and joyfully give assistance to meeting those needs. And Christians with this gift do not mind working behind the scenes, which is the key part, I think, when I think of this gift of if you have a gift of service, some people they are just using what you said earlier, they wake up thinking about it. You know, how can they serve in a way that no one will ever know? And and there are a lot of people in the church that are those people. They're the behind-the-scenes folks that kind of serve in the shadows that no one will ever know what they did to make that event or that service or that ministry come together. And honestly, they're thrilled about it. Like they don't they don't want anybody to know. And that that fills up their cup just to do things to make the church go uh and then get none of the glory for it.
SPEAKER_01And Mark, this is not just being introverted. This is there there is an effectiveness to it that when a person, when this kind of person helps with an event, the spirit works through them to make to see that event succeed and grow and be effective. Um, and so I mean, yeah, that's the that's a a good part of that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Next one is mercy. Mercy, according to this definition, is the cheerful acts of compassion. Sorry, what'd you what are you laughing at?
SPEAKER_01I'm laughing because when I've done inventories before, this is always my lowest one.
SPEAKER_03So you're are you confessing on in public air that you're a jerk? I'm a jerk.
SPEAKER_01The spiritual gift of being a jerk.
SPEAKER_03I'm sorry. We'll we'll pray for you. So mercy is the cheerful acts of compassion. Characterize those that have this gift. Persons with this gift aid the body by empathizing, which is a great word, with hurting members. So, so to kind of you know illustrate that too, and I'll actually I'll confess too, I'm not the greatest in the gift of mercy. I would not call that one of my spiritual gifts. And I will go backwards to what I said earlier. We're all called to be merciful as he has been merciful to us. So it doesn't mean, yeah, we get to be jerks. We're actually all called to exercise mercy, but I'll actually illustrate with my wife Bethany. I would say she has a gift of mercy. Like Bethany cares. She honestly cares more than I do sometimes. And she actually feels the hurt with people when they hurt, where I have to train myself sometimes to get down there in the gutter with them in the moment where I know I need to. And I can get there by the grace of God, where Bethany has that gift, she's just already there. Um, and so when someone's hurting, she'll hurt with them just by nature because I think she has a gift in that arena.
SPEAKER_01I've seen uh as a student minister, I saw this in some of our kids. By the way, they were the ones who always had a group of people around them, and they were always the kids who were kind of troubled and and had issues and kind of stuff like that. But that but they had this compulsion and this gifting of I want to collect these people and bring them to where they can get help. And I want, I want this person to get help. Yeah. They may not always have the answers themselves, but they know how to take people to that. And as a result, God draws to them people who are hurting, who are sometimes on the fringes and gives them a pathway into healing. And so churches have to have people who have this gifting because it's it's the main, it's one of the main ways that unsaved people come into a church is by having people who are reaching out and want them to come with them. Yep.
SPEAKER_03I agree. So next one, so there's two more, two more we're gonna cover. It's been a long list, but we've got two more. We're gonna we're gonna crank these out. Last one is, or sorry, second last one is giving. So members with the gift of giving. All members should have the gift of giving. I see. I know that that that jerk gifting as the executive pastor came in talking about the gift of giving. He got he perked up at that one. Members with this gift freely and joyfully give to the work and mission of the body, and cheerfulness and uh are character is characteristic cheerfulness of giving of these people. So same thing that we kind of been talking about thematically. We're we're all called to give biblically, but but some people they truly, their cups just overfilled by by giving generously above and beyond. It's not even like it's not even work for them. Like they have a harder time holding on to their stuff, they just want to give it away to the glory of God and the good of other people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and these these are the people, and and I've I've seen this in church over and over again. The the most passionate and spiritually gifted givers are not gonna be the ones that you you won't know it. Yeah. You'll you'll know it by based off their personality, but they're not gonna be the ones parading around showing off how much that they're giving.
SPEAKER_00It's true.
SPEAKER_01I mean, they that all of a sudden something there something will come in the mail, or the or some, and I think it's funny too. Sometimes I see these people deliver the checks themselves because it's it's they're like a parent at Christmas time where they're like, I can't wait to give this to this. I'm so excited, I'm so engaged. And they're the kind of people who are not stingy with what's being given, putting a lot of hooks in it. It's a I b uh I believe the god I believe God is is guiding me to give this toward this, um, and as a result, it builds up the body. So I mean it's uh I I I we joke about that because all all all believers should give, and frankly, most don't. Yeah, um, but this is like a whole other arena of it to an extent.
SPEAKER_03Well, and I also want to make sure we keep that point that just for this one, that it is talking in the context of giving towards the kingdom of God. Because if you have the spiritual gift that's being exercised for the building up of the church, where there are generous people, and some people will give to a million different things all around the world and different good, benevolent causes. But the spiritual gift, it's focused on how do I use the resources I have to advance the gospel further in the mission of God.
SPEAKER_01Because it's not even about a mount, it's about what's given and what, or not it's about how it's given and why. And um that that's the kind of thing that there's some people who don't have a lot of money, but man, when they give, it is just a joy kind of thing. And they and it makes a difference in the church, and it they and those kind of people who give like that change people around them. Yeah, uh, and so yeah, that's I I love that gift.
SPEAKER_03So the last one we'll talk about, I know we'll kind of wrap probably from here, but the and y'all been hanging with us on this list. I hope it's been helpful for you. The last one is hospitality. And so, hospitality, those with this gift have the ability to make visitors, guests, and strangers feel at ease. And that's a wonderful gift for the church. Uh, and it's not just exercised, I will add, in a worship service or in a Bible study gathering on Sunday, although people with the gifts of hospitality are essential for us to do church, you know, in a programmatic way, but people with the gift of hospitality, they exercise it in their neighborhoods. Uh they exercise it with their neighbors, with their friends, their family, where they just have a essence about them that I think is given by God for his glory to help make outsiders just feel like insiders real quickly. And that's what fills up their cup and gives them joy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, merce people with mercy gifts and hospitality gifts a lot of times go together and they they hang out together. Yeah. Because the the hospital people who do hospitality care about the environments people are going into. Now, keep in mind this is not being, for those of you who watch the office, the party planning committee. It's it's not a uh a power grab, which it can be sometimes with uh people who think that they're practicing hospitality, but it it is a thought process first of how is the environment that I'm creating going to build up the kingdom of God. Yeah. Um, and and again, a dissatisfaction with their faith or with their their working out, working out of faith if they're not providing that for somebody else.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, that was a long list. So, Lauren, I don't know if that was helpful. You kind of asked us a question and we talked like an hour about like everything in the New Testament. But hopefully, if any listeners are still with us, you've now heard the Hopefully some of that's been helpful. I don't know, Lord.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I no, I think that was really helpful. I personally obviously didn't I I didn't have a whole lot to add because it hasn't been something that I really studied and it was my question that I asked. So I I'm really thankful for the explanation. I guess like to wrap us up, what I guess I would say, like, how do you know what you have?
SPEAKER_01Well, one thing I want to say is, listener, don't stress out if you if you have a hard time really defining your full list of spiritual gifts. Um I I made mention off air that sometimes I think we approach spiritual gift inventories and things like that, like Pokemon, where it's like, I gotta, I gotta catch them all. And um, you know, there's stress. If I don't do if I don't do if I if I don't have the gift of evangelism, then I'm then I'm a failure or whatever else, or uh or things like that. You know, ultimately when we think back to the original definition of what we talked about, it is the movement of the Holy Spirit through your life. Um and bait uh that's an area where trust can come into it. Spiritual gift inventories are helpful, and I know that uh John that will probably mention this here in a second about place uh a place that you can find one. But um don't allow a spiritual gift inventory to to quench the work of the spirit through your life. There there may be spiritual gifts that you don't even understand that you have, but that the spirit will work through you and you'll see the effect in the in the body of God. Um and so yeah, that I think I think that's an important part to it is um remembering where it's coming from, that it's that it's not a it's not a mark on your your worth or identity if you don't have such and such spiritual gift. The spiritual gifts are gonna be what they're gonna be. Right. And all of them are as valid as the Holy Spirit who gives them.
SPEAKER_03Well, and and I think you mentioned the assessment tool. You you can go get an assessment tool. Lifeway has one. I honestly don't even really recommend it. And the only reason why is is because of this. I'm not saying they're not helpful at all. They can be. But in my opinion, if you really want to know what you have, the first place to start is ask others who are around you. You want to ask people that know you because ultimately spiritual gifts are given, 1 Peter 4.10, for the common good. So if you have it, it's impacting other people. Um, so I think asking people that know you in your in your community, having a conversation, kind of looking at this list, in other words, with others and saying, just hey, give me feedback. Do you see any of this in me? I think that's a great place to start is asking others because people will affirm it. Like I I began to believe that I had a gift of teaching and preaching when people started speaking that into me. Uh, when I started exercising it and then others started responding. But then the second thing I would encourage you to look for if you're trying to figure out is the fruit. So, so it's both of those. It's the affirmation of God's people where He's where He uses people to speak those things into you, but it's the fruit of your ministry. Because if you're gifted in it, that means good's gonna come from it because God's in it and He's using it to build up, not tear down. So if things are being built up through you, you're gonna start seeing a trail of evidence. Like even on the preaching and teaching, just use my own life experience. The first uh I told you people affirmed it in me, but the other thing that started making me think, well, maybe this is something in me is people start making some decisions. Like I got thrown, I got forced into actually preaching and teaching for the first time when I was 22. And kids responded, made decisions, and then I got affirmation from others. And I could also sense this would be the third part, the Holy Spirit in me of affirming that in my own spirit, because there's there's those kind of the trifecta aspect where it all kind of works together of you need other people. God uses the spirit through others to speak into us. He gives us the fruit of that spirit, the evidence of those gifts to to affirm it, but he also speaks it into our hearts. Like I think the closer you, the longer you walk in the spirit, the more you can begin to just know and discern the truth. Uh, and like I could go through that list and we kind of alluded to it. Some of them I know the spirit's spoken those into me that that's there, but then others, I know he's spoken to me like, good luck. Like you're you're you're really far off on this area.
SPEAKER_01Not everybody can be as merciful as me, John. Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_03So I think I think God will help lead you, in other words, in your own heart, but don't just let him tell you because you might get it wrong on the interpretation. Like, look, look for fruit uh in your life through your service and look for the affirmation of others.
SPEAKER_04That's good.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think thank you for holding on with us for these last several minutes as we've talked through this. And we do hope that you will find yourself in a community where you can sharpen yourself in these spiritual gifts. Next week we are going to talk a little bit about the um more difficult sides of these things, some of the more controversial gifts. And so we do hope to see you next time on the Citizen ATX podcast. Have a great week, and we'll talk at you later.