Citizen ATX
Citizen ATX
Rivalries: Sports vs Church
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Sports have never been more popular than they are now. Nobody knows that better than parents of kids who play sports. However, of late, it seems that coaches, schools, and other organizations have begun to value church a lot less. Games and practices on Sundays have become a cultural norm, and the pressure of attending these events can mean the difference between a hobby and a career (or so they tell you...) Join Matt, Lauren, and Jonathan as they discuss how to navigate the sports world as a player or parent, while still valuing your faith and the church.
Hello there and welcome to the Citizen ATX podcast. If you're still listening after that atrocious war song that we just played, we know that you're the real ones. You're here for the for the long run as you're listening to that Aggie War. Here on the thing. Me and Steven, our producer, were joking about this off air, but you know, they always it's always the Aggies are the best at turning whoop into whoops, right? So with that whoop plural. So whoop is plural? Is that no?
SPEAKER_05That's why you just said whoop plural.
SPEAKER_00There we go. Hate it.
SPEAKER_01Well, so we got two Aggies on this podcast with us today. Hello, Jonathan. Holobaloo Connect Connect. Good to see you, Matthew. See, there's not words, they don't use words. Howdy. See, howdy is actually a word of a part. That is a cultural appropriation, sir. A M created. Just like the You know, you can't wear the color maroon without somebody, without somebody thinking you're an Aggie fan. Maroon's a perfectly good color. Mississippi State wears maroon. But nobody knows that. No one would care about AM. No, they have crimson. But anyway. And then also with us is Lauren Kitka, also an Aggie.
SPEAKER_03Ts and G's. Hello. What is that? What does that mean? Thanks and gigs.
SPEAKER_01Jeez Louise. We need like a whole other vocabulary here. Goodness. All right. Well, this we have been doing this series called Rivalries, as we're talking about different forms of tension in our lives here versus here on the earth versus in our spiritual existence with Christ. And so today we are going to jump into a very uh apt subject, especially for this fall, as we're in college football season, and we're going to talk about the rivalry between sports and church. All right. So all the soccer moms that were listening are at their ears have perked up, and we're just going to dive right into it. All right. So, Jonathan, what is the problem? How is why do is there a rivalry between sports and church? And or what what has been your observation here of this rivalry?
SPEAKER_00The problem is sports are really fun. That's the problem. Yeah. Now I I love sports. It's it's it's uh it's a problem in a way. So I will say this to start out. Sports are a big part of our lives, obviously. And even myself, I I grew up uh playing football and basketball as far back as I can remember and played it all the way through high school and loved every minute of it. But the thing with sports where the problem steps in is not that sports are bad, sports can actually be great, but they do demand a lot of your life, especially the older you get. And so where the tension is, the rivalry to kind of frame our conversation today, is you only have so much time to commit in your day. You only have so much time to commit on Wednesday nights and on the weekends, on Sunday mornings. And so there are two competitors that go after your time as a kid and ultimately as a parent as the decision maker for your kids. And two of those entities are the church and your organized athletic team. And so that has created the problem, is oftentimes people feel like they got to choose one or the other.
SPEAKER_01Well, and let's add another one in there too, family time. Because with uh with the amount of time that gets taken up by school during the week and things like that. And also if you work an 80-hour a week job, I mean, there there's going to be a drive to interact with sports, but then also just even having time with your family. Now, Lauren, you were a college athlete. So, I mean, talk talk to us about that. Like what what what did that what does that pressure look like? What what is the where where did that tension come in for you?
SPEAKER_05Oh my gosh, I lived and breathed it. I mean, it I I the the quickest way to share my testimony is that um softball became my god um and and tournaments were my church. I mean, truly that's what it was because I was spending so much time out on that field trying to get recruited to play college ball that I mean, we were out there every single weekend. That was my community, that was my team. That was that they were the people that I did everything with. Now, thankfully, I had at the very end of my time a very godly coach who cared more about us as people than as players and our performance, which is not something that I received in any of my other experiences in playing uh playing sports. It it all became all about performance. Um, but there is that that tension to like now that I think about it and and I'm married and I'm gonna raise children, you know, my husband and I talk about like, what do we do if our kids want to play baseball on Sundays? Like, how do we do that? Because we want them to be in church and plugged into a local community. And I think that that is a really, really hard line to walk.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. It is. And pardon me for a bad joke here, but because sports was your the baseball diamond was your church, did that make sunflower seeds your communion? Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_04Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01Met out!
SPEAKER_04Oh my gosh. And we lost them all. All righty.
SPEAKER_01That was the rest of our audience that wasn't scared off by the Aggie Warham before. All right, so why so why are sports such a big deal then? Like how how did, you know, we we talk about let's just be real about what sports are. Like even to baseball. It is throwing a thing of that's wrapped in leather at somebody, that person hacking at it with a piece of wood and then trying to run around before that piece of leather gets thrown into another piece of leather. Yeah. Exactly. Or you think about football. It's there is a literal pig skin in the middle of the field and a bunch of people just randomly hitting each other until one of them falls on the ground, but only the one that has the pig skin in their hands. You can alternately kick it, but you can't throw it back. Well, you can't throw it forwards past a certain line. I mean, you I hope you are feeling with me a little bit of the ludicrousness of what sports kind of are. But if that's the case, how do they come, how have they come to become such a big deal? Why is this? How could it how could sports be that important that they even form a rivalry in the first place?
SPEAKER_00Well, at the core of sports, what are sports? Sports, and it's most simplest definition in my mind, it's a competition. It's a competition. That's what a sport is. And and there's something about that that I think actually is healthy, you know, in the sense of it's something that humans have been doing for a long time. It's not a new thing where where we want to push ourselves and we want to compete and measure ourselves against other people. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, but there is, I think, that just kind of natural humanistic instinct that's in us. It starts when we're young, where we want to dominate. Like we want to be good, we want to be good at something. And and when that's funneled correctly with a kingdom you know mindset, it actually can get channeled in a really healthy way. But but sports is kind of the first step for most of us as kids, where we get that taste of competition and we want to be great at something. Uh and we play, and then as you have success, it kind of intoxicates you too. Because as you, if you if you become good at it and you win games or you get trophies or you get medals, it starts to shape you because now you realize I can dominate, I am awesome, and you want to keep feeding those endorphins, like you keep wanting to keep feeding that feeling of I'm on top of the world, and that's why we get so addicted to it so quickly.
SPEAKER_01Well, and it kind of connects back to our last conversation about politics, is that we want to be winners, right? And it feels good to physically defeat somebody else. I mean, you think about the history of humanity, generally that was a role that was held in warfare, right? To be able to be a successful soldier. And while that still is an element in the world today, for the Americ for the general American culture and general American eight-year-old, they're not they may not be thinking in real terms about going to battle with their enemies, but they are going to be thinking about I I hope I don't strike out on Sunday or on Saturday or whenever I'm playing, um, because I don't want to be embarrassed. Because I think one of the things that elevat has elevated sports, especially in our culture, but probably realistically in a global context, is success culture. That we we want to have things that are measurable by which we can have higher esteem of ourselves. Um and I think that goes beyond just playing in sports, also to being sports fans, right? I mean, if you ever talk to a Dallas Cowboys fan on a Monday, you're not going to find a more depressed person in the United States because their value system has just been embarrassed because their their local sports team is a joke. I'm sorry, the Cowboys are terrible. I'm a Cowboys.
SPEAKER_00We only feel that way on Mondays in the postseason. During the regular season, we're actually pretty good most of the time. Yeah, when we're beating up the Buccaneers, we'll feel great 10 or 11 times. We'll win some games and then we'll be depressed. First week of playoffs.
SPEAKER_01But it is, I mean, it it comes down like it's the value in it, even though the original value that's in sports is of physical exertion, competition, and sportsmanship, right? Like of respecting the people you're playing against. We tend to boil this down into do well, did you win or did you lose? Did you get it for yourself or did you not? And you know, as a result, that ups the ante with sports to where it's not it's no longer about going out and rejoicing in the physical bodies that God's given us and it and uh expressing that through competition. It's did you did you defeat somebody else or are you a loser?
SPEAKER_00Well, and this is where I'll I'll jump in on my opinion, which might might be a hot take. I do think it's about winning. Like I do, in the sense of like, because I will say this, like sports, it's it's about winning. That's why it's a competition. So the the objective is to win. And I think I think in some ways I was talking about the reaction of politics in our generation, how how we've kind of gotten weaker towards it. I think some of that's also true in sports, where you know, we had the reaction where for a period of time when we were kids, it became participant trophies. You know, if you're out there, you're a winner. No, you're not. You're not a winner. Like, not everybody wins.
SPEAKER_01Upwards soccer when you've scored eight goals, but they don't keep score. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Like it is a competition, and it's good, I think, as a young person to understand that. And I think it goes back into, I think some of it goes into how God wired us. If if in Genesis 1, man was called to exercise dominion and to cultivate and create. So we have a natural, I think, God-given desire to create, develop, cultivate, win. Yeah, win at the end of the day. Um, so I think it when it's channeled properly, it can be done really well. And as a kid, you you want to teach them to win because you want them to win in life. They're gonna have hardships, they're gonna have challenges. But when it's only about the win afterwards, because because if you if you lose and you're coached correctly, that kid can still win because you're gonna learn from that loss and you're gonna build character within you. But but all that being said, it is about winning. And if you don't have essentially the biblical foundation of of what happens when you lose, and ultimately what is really winning in life above this, it gets muddy really, really quickly because it's only about the win on the field.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And and then at that point, there's nothing else to push you in life, and it just becomes, well, then I just have to be on the field all the time. Like it's like that's that is the only thing that matters, is that. Um, so it's complicated. It matters, but then there's other wins involved as well.
SPEAKER_01Well, and you made that statement about winning, and and biblically, you look at uh, say, uh 1 Corinthians chapter 9, verse 24, which says, Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Um it it's you know, it it doesn't say though that if you don't win the race, then you're you've lost. It's running in such a way so that you can win. Um the problem with the participation sports stuff is that it winds up it winds up being that, oh, you're just not really doing this for any reason. You're just doing it. And I mean, it devalues what it is that you're pouring into it. And, you know, it ev even goes on to say that every athlete exercises self-control in all things, they do it to to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. So I do not run aimlessly. I do not box as one beating the air, but I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. Paul is talking there about his Christian life. And I mean, and that that this idea of pushing ourselves, of challenging ourselves, of growing in strength, that it should be like a competition, like a race, but that a race that we're running as to win the prize, not with that as the only potential goal. Because in reality, when once you start running just to win, um the the inevitable action of humanity is to find ways to cheat.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And to find I mean, uh I used to play a lot of outdoor basketball, and one of the big rules is don't ever play old guys because they will pull your shorts down when you try to go for a pass, and they will use that knee brace to dead leg you when you're trying to go across. And God help you if you're playing skin shirts versus skins, because you will get absolutely slimed by a 70-year-old man. Ugh. Anyway, but that that's the thing. It's like whenever winning becomes the only reason for it, you're gonna cheat. You're gonna you're because you're not doing it to grow and not doing it to really pursue that imperishable prize, but to pursue a perishable one.
SPEAKER_00Well, and where sports start to compete with church, in other words, and in the faith too, is that the win on the field, which does matter, and it and it should, I think, be lifted up as a important thing, when that's the only thing that matters, and you don't realize the wins that you're trying to establish in your kid's life spiritually, that that's where it goes downhill. I think that's where the rivalry is because we only see wins and losses on fields, and we don't see wins and losses in our kids' spiritual lives. Yeah. And sometimes our kids are losing spiritually, so they can win physically on a field. Yeah, and that's where the tension is because really you want your kid to win in everything. You want them to compete and and do well in sports and uh and continue to develop in that in that game, but you want them to develop spiritually. You want them to grow up ultimately to run the race that Paul's talking about uh and to win that prize, to receive that prize. And so that's the tension though, because how do you how do you win in both? It's a hard question to answer. Well, the answer is you don't skip leg day.
SPEAKER_01And then and you talk about classic high school things, like what guy what do what do guys always do when they go in the weight room? You do curls. Curls get the girls. That's what you go for.
SPEAKER_06Curls for the girls.
SPEAKER_01But what happens with those guys is that when they do that and they only focus on one at one aspect of their life, which in fact tends to be pretty vain, it doesn't make them any better at sports, it doesn't make them any faster. They're still gonna lose the race because they didn't work out the things that are less sexy, that are less um uh self-honoring. And that's what sports in church wind up usually happening is both of them are discipline, and and acting in faith is a discipline, but we choose to only exercise the things that bring us attention or bring us glory or honor without without doing the core, right? Not not fo not not skipping leg day. So uh one other another area that I would say though, too, that we we definitely have to focus on, especially in the context of church versus sports, is parent fear. Um and and I would add into that also external pressure, because I think they're pretty similar. But I've but I, you know, I was a youth minister for about 12 years and I watched it happen over and over again where a parent would encourage their child to skip church to do a sporting event because they were afraid that their kid wasn't gonna make the team if they didn't do whatever stupid practice they're sorry, they I'm just letting my bias leak out here. Um but whatever practice their coach said they had to do. I mean, the amount of people that I've I've heard, like especially like even oddly enough, in like a swim context where the swim coach says, hey, if you're not if you're not swimming 42 miles a day, then you're not gonna make the team. It's like, come on, man, you're getting paid to coach children. Like, grow up. But anyway, uh I mean I think that that is something that a lot of parents deal with is that they don't want their child to be perceived as a loser because they didn't make the team or they didn't practice enough to be the best at it.
SPEAKER_00Well, I would argue I'd go a little bit a step further psychologically. I think they don't want to be the loser. Right. Because what they're fearful of is that their kid will resent them for making them do the hard thing, the right thing. Yeah, and then the parent loses in return. They lose from the coaches and from the other parents, they're like, Why aren't you there? Why it's just church, just skip it. You know, and then they're the ones having to pay that price. They lose at home. The kid says, All my friends are getting onto me and I'm letting the team down. Why are you doing this to me? So they lose to their children. And so that's the issue, actually. I think the fear, even though we say as parents, we're trying to give what's best to our kids, I would argue if you really get under the hood and you look at it, you're just protecting yourself. You just you don't you don't want to make the hard decision because you know it's gonna hurt yourself uh socially as well as uh within your own home.
SPEAKER_01And I think it's I think it's uh helpful to think about because we we separate uh the diff church from sports where and and maybe part of this is that we we we have uh devalued church to the extent of becoming entertainment. Exactly. Well, I didn't have a good time doing that, so it's not really worth doing. When in reality church is a discipline, right? Um you know, Lauren, you brought up you brought up a verse off air, which you if you if you have it up do you have okay, you don't uh Hebrews 10 verses 24 through 25. Um and I'll I'll let you pull that up and just signal to me when you have it. But you know, it it it it it talks about the fact of of the m congregating together, of being together as the church as a discipline. Um so do you have it?
SPEAKER_05And let us consider how we may spur up one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another and all the more as you see the day approaching.
SPEAKER_01Because what what happens, I I think, and what I've observed a lot in in parenting culture and things like that, is that when it comes to church, um if we we set are we going to ha put our kids in church based off of what they can experience versus what they can give? Um you know, being a part of a community is always a sacrifice. You have to give to others, you've got to care for others. Of course, when you go into a community, you're gonna receive good things. You're gonna receive worship to God. He's gonna settle your so bring peace and bring settling to your soul. Um but we have so de-emphasized that what uh people are what people actually give to a community, that the fact that the quality of a community is based on what people are willing to give, n over what they're able to get. You think about American culture in general, why is American culture slid slid so much in virtue and morals and just general quality? Classically, it was about how do I serve my country. You think about the thousands upon thousands of men that served in the military in World War II, they did it because they wanted to serve their country and their families and protect their families. Now that's not a thing as much. There are those who still serve diligently in the military and serve others diligently, but for the most part, you look at general culture, it's not about serving others. It's about what can I take from others. And sports does the same thing, can do the same thing for people where they say, Well, you know, when I when I compare church to sports, if I go to church, I'm gonna have to be around people that are different than me or that may maybe make me uncomfortable, or I might have to give something of myself versus sports. Let's be honest, if your kids on a on a sports team as a child or a teenager, you're probably paying for them to be there. So it they have to be accepted by the contract. So anyway, that that's I think part of what has led to this.
SPEAKER_05Okay, I have some hot take questions for y'all. Are you ready?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So y'all are both parents. You have kids who probably like I mean, likely between the five that y'all have, six, sorry, sorry, six, might be involved in sports. What, how on earth? Because like how on earth would you handle that? And I ask you because in a way, being someone who was immersed in it for a lot of my life, granted, I was not a Christian at that time. So it's hard for me to go back and look at it through the lens that I have now. And I didn't appreciate what I had in front of me because I didn't know how valuable it was. There was a community there. There was a way to be a light in that particular world because it is so secular, it is so success-driven, it is so performance-driven. And in a way, you can do it in a in a way that honors God. I've seen Oklahoma softball do that really well. Really well. There's a girl named Grace Lyons on the on the team that she had a quote this year, and she said, they asked her, like in response to a question about how they maintain their joy under immense pressure, she said on ESPN, the only way that you can have a joy that doesn't fade is from the Lord. Any other type of joy is actually happiness that comes from circumstances and outcomes. Joy from the Lord is really the only thing that can keep you motivated, just in a good mindset, no matter the outcomes. She's playing on Sunday. She's not in a church on Sunday morning. So therefore, if that becomes this particular, I mean, I do believe that sports abilities are given as gifts and your spiritual gifts should be used to edify the church as well. So, how do you navigate those lines when you can do it to the glory of God, but you also need to navigate priorities and commitments as well?
SPEAKER_00I'd say a couple things. First, I'll just answer for our family. And our kids are still young, 11 and under, but Bethany and I have made a decision, and I will tell you it's not because I'm a pastor, it's because I'm a Christian, and it's it's my it's what our conviction is, is we will not skip church on Sundays for games. And we've already actually exercised that discipline. Um there's been already opportunities even with our young children where they have games and we said nope, see ya. And we don't, and we don't do it. Um my kids fortunately are so young right now, it's not as as you know detrimental as I imagine it probably will be as they get older, but that's a conviction we've we've made. And and the reason why, I'll give you a couple, you know, reasons with that. Our kids right now, they're being trained. I'll use a sports metaphor, you know, in and in football, soccer, whatever, you're going through training. And when you're in training camp, it's all about reps. You're trying to get reps and as many reps as you can because you're trying to get them ready for the game. And for your kids, you got them in your house for 18 years. That's it. I'm already over halfway done with my oldest. I mean, it's pretty crazy to think like Emma's 11. I mean, I'm we're already, we've only got seven years. You're an old man. I am, I'm an old man. But I've got seven years of reps left. That's it. And my job is to prepare her for the game of life and to prepare her ultimately to hopefully love God, serve God, love the church, find a Christian husband one day, and build a Christian family. So every representation. Matters. Every Sunday matters. And so those reps, if you're not training them, don't be shocked when they grow up and they're not playing the game well. Now, I don't want to also say it formulaic that if you do train them, they're going to exceed on the field of life, because I also know examples where that hasn't worked. But but I will say this for those prodigal children and for those that run off, which does happen, even though you do everything right. Can I just tell you, from my life experience of 15 years of full-time ministry and just doing life with Christians, the vast majority of them that do it the right way, they're blessed in the long run. Like their kids do love God and their kids do build Christian homes because they prioritize the right things. The training can't matter.
SPEAKER_01And one thing I will say to that is especially with church, kids will pick up if you want to be there or not. A lot of this that happens is because dad doesn't want to go to church. Exactly. Dad wants to watch the sports gambling show before football so that he can know where to put money down.
SPEAKER_00And because he doesn't want the preacher to bust his own chops or ask for money or do anything that'll make him uncomfortable. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01And so, I mean, I I think, Lauren, one of the things to your example is that absolutely that that woman is being a wonderful light for Christ in that in that uh context. But I think it goes before that to the statement of do you have a choice? Do you have control over yourself and the things that you do? I mean, Sunday mornings are a portion of the week. Um and the question then is are you forced on Sunday mornings to compete in that sport in order to continue to be involved in sports at all? There have been athletes who, because of religious conviction, have not played on Sundays. I mean the chariots of fire is a pretty popular example, but there are others too. Um but even then some of those who who uh will some of those who are have sports on Sunday mornings go to church at a different time of week. They'll go on Saturday night. Because what what what honestly happens most of the time is that it becomes a cop w if we're if we're really talking about people who are saying, Well, my kid had this game, so we couldn't go to church. The the team made me do it. No, they didn't. They didn't. You made a choice to do that. Now own up to it. And I mean and we we can have grace for people if they if they choose that they their kids gonna miss a Sunday to do something. But that but to me, it's illegitimate for people to act like they don't have a choice when it comes to sports of well, if I didn't if I didn't skip church, it's like someone's holding a gun to their head. No, they're not.
SPEAKER_00And can I say this too? There's a lie that that parents are told that if I don't let my kid play, they're not gonna somehow play college, whatever. It's baloney. Like I've watched Christian families that have had college athletes. I wasn't good enough, but I've watched some others that have played college, and the parents put their foot down because here's the truth if you're good at something, people notice. Like they notice. Like they don't care if you're religious, if you're good and you're gonna help them win in college, you better believe it. They want you on your roster. And and I've watched it, I've watched it personally firsthand, where families have had that conviction. And wouldn't you believe it? Junior still made a college whatever team because it doesn't matter. It's a lie from culture saying that, well, if you're not playing this game 365 days a year, baloney, baloney. If you're good, you're good. Like the reality is I did not play college football because I wasn't good enough. Like nobody wanted me. It had nothing to do with the fact that I went to church.
SPEAKER_01It was my trick knee that kept me out of it. The coach was political, that's why I wasn't.
SPEAKER_00I want to bring up one more point, too, because Lauren, what you brought up is a good, a good uh illustration. So that family, you know, they're basic. They would they could argue, well, we're doing church. We're doing church from the baseball field. Like that's that's a comment I've also heard from people. Because if there's Christians together, well, you were basically doing church over there. Once again, I would then challenge your ecclesiology. What is a church? You know, what biblically then is a church? Because most of us define church as whatever's convenient to us and the least amount of work. Yeah, because in other words, well, I'm I'm doing church on the on the diamond today. Well, really, well, who's the spiritual authority and pastor and shepherd? Where are the deacons? Because those are the offices of the church. Where's the observation of the ordinance of the Lord's Supper and baptism? Because those are ordinances of the church. Where's the spiritual authority and discipline? Because that's actually an authority given to the church. Where's the community and fellowship of believers? Uh, where is the spiritual service that's happening? Where is the discipleship and the building up of the church? Where's the giving of the offerings and the tithes? Like there's these marks that are biblically in the New Testament given to us that define what a local, autonomous church is. And oftentimes we blind past that and we just say, Well, I'm hanging out with some believers. Well, good for you. That is good, but that's not a church. Like, that's not a church. You are part of the church. We are the church as Christians, but we are called to be a part of a local church through the word of God. And in Hebrews chapter 10, verse 24, we're told, Let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. And verse 25 is the key, not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, yeah, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the day approaching. So the writer says, keep meeting together. And he's not talking about a baseball field. If you're looking at the context, he's talking about a local church. And he says, Don't get in the habit of not coming together. Because even back then, people got in bad habits, you know. There were excuses right then before college football and before little league baseball. There was there were reasons back then why people didn't go to church. I don't know, I don't know what kind of ancient sport it was, but yeah, and that bad habits were formed back then is my point. And that's why also, once again, I said it last episode there's nothing new under the sun. Yeah. Like they had challenges then too.
SPEAKER_01Well, and let me, and I'll say this too, for the other side as well and for the challenge for the because someone may be listening to this like, yeah, sports suck. I hate sports. Just forever. But here's the thing why do you think why do we think that people are happy to skip church to go to do sports? Because they hate church. Because they go, they sit, they don't do anything. They they listen to a message that may or may not speak to their hearts. They're not engaged with anybody in real community, and then they leave. And sometimes they have to wear clothes that are uncomfortable. Like it is, it is meaning there is a reason why people hate church, and my belief is because they aren't being the church. Yeah. We're being a church-like object and we're doing the things and saying the words like we're supposed to, but we're not connecting in community. We're not building each other up. And so then that I think that's the challenge for those of you who may be listening who think we just slammed on the on the uh AAU people. I mean, the reality is church be the church. Make like the way that we create the community of the church. We need to make it we need to make this happen in such a way that people miss the church when they're not there. When they when something is empty from their life because they didn't receive the word from God or they didn't take communion or they didn't invest in somebody else's life on a Sunday. The challenge in this to the church is play better. I mean I mean, ha have have we gotten so I mean you think about it in the context of running. You know, it's okay, it's valuable to run the same distance every week on the same surface, but it doesn't make you a better runner. It just means that you've fallen into a rut. Real good runners will change their training routines at different times to try to be a more comprehensively good runner. And the church should do the same thing. We should challenge ourselves to grow and to get better at what we do. I mean, the Colossians 3 23 passage says, Whatever you do, work heartily is for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you'll receive the inheritance of as your award reward. You were serving the Lord Christ. So that that matters absolutely in sports, and that's why I would applaud that OU player that she is she is playing with the full of full heart of worship and her ability. But I I would challenge the church on the same thing. Are you serving the Lord with all your heart as working for the Lord, not for men when you go to church? Because that's not a grant, it's not a given. Um, and I think sometimes we think it is.
SPEAKER_05So that's good. Thank you for answering my questions.
SPEAKER_01Well, did you have other hot take questions? Because I'm I'm on fire right now.
SPEAKER_05No, I I genuinely wanted to ask that pointedly because I I I first of all, like I'm we're currently praying through that. And I also wanted to give some, you know, some practicals for people that are balancing that tension and figuring out what to do and how to parent and what the future looks like for them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So that's very helpful.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I think it's I think Jonathan said it in an important way. It is about making a choice. And we all make choices. Uh the the the flaw is when we try to act like the world and circumstances have worked in such a way as to where we don't have a choice. You absolutely do when it comes to sports and church. And and also keep in mind, they're not enemies. They don't have to be enemies. And for millennia, sports and the church got along because the ch people said the church is a priority. It was it was important and they didn't work on Sundays because it was important to them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And church, I think what you said there earlier about the about it picking up the game, I'll I'll use a different illustration to family. So church, we call church a family. It is a family of faith. And everybody's got a family, not everybody likes to get together with them. I mean, that's the truth. Like, I mean, like that's in if we're just look at our normal lives. Like we all have families, we're all born into some kind of household, we got relatives, and we all know we should get together. And sometimes we don't like getting together. And I think a lot of people operate that way within their local church, and that's why one, I would challenge you if you don't have a genuine love for your church, like you don't enjoy being there, you don't like the people there, you don't feel like you're spiritually fed there or challenged there, then my question is why are you there? Because we we don't get to choose what family we're born into, but we do get to choose what church family we're gonna be a part of. And so if if there truly is a problem in that church and God's not calling you to fix it, because maybe he is, yeah. But but if he's calling you to go somewhere, then go somewhere. But my biggest encouragement is find a church that you love and then make it better to your point of get in the game, like get in the game and make it better. Like now, for me, I don't like missing church. And it's not just because I I preach, I genuinely like being a church. I like seeing people. And when I'm not there, in the same way, like with my own family, when I travel, if I'm doing stuff, after a few days, genuinely I start to miss my family. Like I want to get back home. I want to go be around them because I love being with my family. And church should be the same way. And I think you're right. The biggest indictment on this whole situation is that people don't love church enough. Like they they just don't. And I think some of them have the right to, and some of them do, but I will also say, you know, just to encourage you, if that's you, if you've been burned by the church, you don't like your church, I would encourage you. Well, then don't give up on the church. Right. The church is great, people are terrible. Like that's that's that's the truth. Like that's that's the story of the Bible. Christ created the church, it's good, it's his bride, but sometimes people get in the way. And and and if you're not plugged into a family, then get plugged into a family. Then I would dare say you might actually want to be there on Sunday.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And and just keep in mind, guys, sometimes when you go to church, you might find an Aggie there. So be you know, God has grace, the least of these. True. That's true. But the ass he sees so hard. All right, I'm done making fun. All right. Well, hey, thank you all for joining us today on the Citizen ATX podcast as we're going through this rivalry series. We look forward to next time as we're talking through these different things and how to be a great citizen both in this world and in the next, even in the rivalries of this life. We'll see you later.