Citizen ATX
Citizen ATX
Feedback: Fighting Fair
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Those of you with siblings know, all too well, the struggle of fighting with family. Whether it be arguing over which song to play in the car or who gets the last bite of food, family and loved ones can drive us to a breaking point if we let them. Despite the negative emotions that can be associated with arguing, it is a necessary aspect of loving others. However, to argue in love means to argue fairly. Join Matt and Jonathan as they discuss how we can fight fair with those that we love.
Hello there and welcome to the Citizen ATX Podcast. My name is Matt Gillum, and we are glad that you are joining us today as we continue our series in feedback talking about communication in both our heavenly city and in our earthly city. Today with me is Jonathan Spencer. Hello, Jonathan. Hello, Matthew. And also is our director of media, Stephen Vaughn. When we did our original take on this, we we uh made fun of Arkansas for a little bit. Not the state, the school. Of course not. But uh you can't you can't repeat that. That's too much gold, Jonathan.
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, I I commiserate with those hogs. We were talking about it. The hogs, they've been losing, not pay spending as much money as that's Aggie, so we've spent a lot of money to lose. At least y'all get it on the cheap. So congratulations to all the nation.
SPEAKER_01And the funny thing is, you know, we talk about feedback. There's no kind of feedback like Sunday morning after a college football Saturday, right? Um, but hey, so today we are going to talk about a topic called fighting fair. So when you are listening to this, you may think to yourself, what does that mean? Like what what what do you mean talking fighting fair? Uh when we're dealing with communication, one of the things that we know to be true is that arguments in any relationship, or working, um, romantic friendships, arguments, if you're close enough with the person, are going to be inevitable. Um and so in that, I think the challenge for us is not avoiding arguments at all costs, but learning how to speak and communicate through those. And so Jonathan, why let's start with that question. And because I just made a you know a fact statement. Do you think uh why do you think arguments are inevitable in relationships? Why do you think that like every listener on here who has a close relationship with somebody should have an expectation that at some point they're gonna deal with an argument?
SPEAKER_00Because we're all sinners is the answer. That's the pastor answer. I mean, it's because it's because we all have very strong opinions, especially in relationships. You're emotionally connected, so emotion comes into it, and emotions can sometimes lead us down the wrong pathways. Uh, but at the end of the day, uh when you have two sinners come together in any relationship, whether that's dating, married, roommates, friends, kids, parents, whatever, uh, you're gonna have conflict because you're gonna sin against each other, both by word and deed. And so those things are gonna happen, and then you got to deal with that. And sometimes it's a matter of sin, an issue where you're hurting each other, and sometimes also it's just a matter of having different opinions and relationships. You bring two different people together that have different life experiences, different perspectives. And so consequently, when you're meshing two lives together, not all things are gonna align perfectly, which is gonna bring conflict. And by by uh word for today, it'll bring a fight to use that word.
SPEAKER_01And you know, the the nature even of sharpening or growth is always of that, that you have two different things that are in tension with each other, um, and the br the alignment of those things. And so for some of you right now, you may be listening to this podcast and you and you may be on your way to a Thanksgiving dinner at a relative's house, and you may have already expressed an unpopular opinion in your car. I know that there's a high likelihood that in the eight hours I'll be in the car that week. Uh, it's gonna be we'll we'll have some fun. Uh and so you know, when it comes to these arguments, then, and if we're if we're talking about really fighting fair, like what what are some things that or what are some methods or or thoughts or guardrails we need to start thinking about putting up uh to to make sure that we're not fighting unfairly in our close relationships?
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell Well, when two fighters get in a ring in a physical fight, when you have you talk about boxing, there's always a referee in the middle. There's somebody that's that's what that there's rules that are set that are stated and understood.
SPEAKER_01Unless it's WWE, in which case someone's gonna pull out a chair. I know. That's true.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, flare it. Um but it but in a normal fight, you do have a referee, and the referee has that purpose of ultimately being that that mediator, that person in the middle that's holding both sides to a standard. You know, there's rules to how you're gonna conduct that fight. And so, in the same way, when you fight, you know, with someone else in a relationship, ultimately that person in the middle, if you're a Christian, is the Holy Spirit who's guiding us and convicting us and hopefully seasoning our words with salt. And then you have the rules, which is God's word that is our guide and the lamp into our feet and the light into our path. So I think if you're gonna fight fair, one, you have to fight biblically as a Christian, you have to understand what is and and not in the Joshua kind of way. Conquest type sense.
SPEAKER_01But not in the uh raise the ground and all that.
SPEAKER_00But in a sense of you better understand what you're called to, you know, and the person you're called to be, because so much of fighting ultimates about your conduct, it's about who you are, and it's the personhood aspect, which comes through the Holy Spirit working through you and you submitting to the authority of God's word. And and our words can get out of line, they can break those rules very quickly if one, we don't understand the word, and two, if we're not listening to that referee to use that analogy of the Holy Spirit speaking into our hearts and we go another track. So I think that's a good place to start.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I think a lot of times we fall into that zone because we're in a place of insecurity. You know, we we spoke in a uh previous week's podcast about how sometimes our methods of communication can arise out of insecurity. And a lot of times I think this is the same way where we feel like we we've been insulted or offended by that person, or maybe we're just having a bad day and just want to make somebody else feel bad too. I mean, this is the I think this is the reality that in marriages probably 80% of fights start because someone didn't eat lunch or didn't get a snack when they needed one. Um it's it's interesting how we can take our our our our circumstances at which we f when we find ourselves in a conversation and then use that as kind of the whipping boy for justification of it. Um and as I'm hearing you, one of the big things that I think that we have to do if we're gonna fight fair is be is to be prepared to step back whenever we find ourselves in an argument, take a breath, take a beat, and determine within ourselves, is this something that's worth arguing about?
SPEAKER_00Well, and it's that same James 119 principle that we've already hammered on this podcast that you've got to be slow to speak and then you gotta be quick to listen and slow to get angry, but but you've got to be slow to speak. So to that point, you gotta make room to listen and step back and evaluate what's being said because the the reality that most of us don't want to acknowledge when we're fighting is usually the truth is somewhere there in the middle. Um it's rare when just one side's right and the other's wrong. Usually there's a little bit of truth on both sides, and one might have more truth than the other. But but at the end of the day, usually if there's a conflict coming up, there's something to be gained from that. It might be delivered the wrong way, the message might not be completely perfect, but there might be something in there that you need to listen to and consider what is the other person saying to me. So you can't do that unless you first humble yourself and listen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think that word humility is probably the big the big piece to it, right? Like a lot of times when we're in a really close relationship with somebody that we care about, we don't want to be embarrassed in front of them. And they're, you know, if if even we we think even in a husband and wife relationship, that that whole idea of being embarrassed in front of your mate is gonna go out the window. It's like, well, no, not not really. You know, whenever you get into these periods where there's something that you're insecure about or something that you're stressed or anxious about, and then you find yourself in an argument, I mean you can f you can find yourself pretty quickly embarrassed. Um and I mean, in that, I I do think you know, we we talk about humility, we also need to talk about, you know, transparency and clarity of why, right? Like if you get if you find yourself in an argument, uh have you clarified to the other person where you're coming from, or are you just picking at them? Like I mean, to go back to the kind of the dumb, not I I would say partially dumb example of just being hungry when you're when you're starting to start or hangry, as the as the kids say. Um the the in the argument, have you taken a step back and said, Hey, I'm sorry, I missed lunch today. Can can we resume this after I've had something to eat or just had a moment? I mean, another another area where a lot of uh unnecessary fights come up is whenever somebody comes just back from work.
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_01And families, this is the it's a tale as old as time. Dad gets home from a work day, mom is stressed to the gills because she's been taking care of everybody, and the idea is here comes my ship on the horizon, he's gonna help. He's exhausted, she's exhausted, and everybody's mad at each other because the other person isn't do is not taking care of what needs to be taken care of. And so, in that, I mean, again, there has to be clarity in the in these arguments. If you're gonna fight fair, you need to let the person know, hey, this is where I'm coming from. Yeah. Um, I may be right, I may be wrong, but I'm going to uh if whether I'm right or wrong, I'm gonna tell you the truth about what's going on in my mind and heart when we're having this argument.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think you touched on a really key principle there of you know, not just the humility and the expression of it, but you talked about having the right time, you know, and the right place for that fight. And it makes me think going back to the boxing illustration, the first thing you do when you're when you have a fight is you schedule it. Like you know, this is this is the place and this is the time, this is where we're gonna do it. And that that selection is made very intentionally. They think this is the right date where this will have the best odds for this fight to be effective. And so, to the same point, though, you made a you made a great observation. When we choose to fight, we don't consider anything about the date or time. It's just like I'm mad now, I'm gonna talk.
SPEAKER_01I'm mad now, so I'm gonna hit somebody.
SPEAKER_00Like I know you're tired, I know I got three kids screaming in the background, I know everybody's stressed, I know bills haven't been paid, but I'm just gonna right now fight about the dishes. You know, that's just like it's it's that's who we are. We don't think about what is the best venue and time, which to your point, to fight wisely means you you consider when will they be positioned to receive this. Yeah. Um, and and if you already know they are just a ticking time bomb of stress, it might not be the right moment to have that fight.
SPEAKER_01One of the things that my wife and I talk about a lot in premarital counseling is to that point of timing. Uh, it seems to be that a lot of times the most serious conversations tend to come up at like 12 15 a.m. Yeah. And you know, for me, I'm I'm a um I I like going to bed early. She she likes staying up late. And one of the things that she has said is she she's come to recognize that if she tries to start a conversation like that with me, I'm gonna be working with like 30% of my brain ban at that point. All I want to do is be be asleep. Yeah. Now on the flip side of that, where my responsibility where my responsibility comes in on it is if we're not gonna talk about it then, we have to we have to say, hey, this is the date and time in which we'll talk about it. Like well, let's go out to breakfast tomorrow and talk talk this over. Or hey, I'll I'll take my lunch hour. And you know, for for most of us, when we when when we're talking about what it means to schedule a time with a receptive, making sure that it's not at the same time as other things are happening around you, at a time where you can sit and and make eye contact with each other if if necessary, having physical con contact with each other. Um because what that is is it's it not only does it give you a good stable ground to be able to talk rationally through issues, but also it's an it's an active investment in the person that most of the time the reason these fights get pitched so fast is because one side feels like the other side isn't taking them seriously. Right. And so then the response is, well, I'm gonna press the nuclear button to make them get serious about this because this is something that is making me angry. And so, I mean that that I think there's a good point to that. Now, it would be funny for uh the the men on this that are listening to this podcast to text their wife, hey, I would like to engage in an argument at 12 30 tomorrow.
SPEAKER_00I'm telling you, yeah, get your fight promoter to text them and say this is when it's going down.
SPEAKER_01That's my oldest child, right?
SPEAKER_00Well, well, and to that same point though, I think you gotta set the date. You're correct. And and usually if you're in a healthy relationship, the person will appreciate being heard and that this platform's coming. It's coming. It might not be right now, but hey, we are scheduling. I'm gonna hold to my word that we're gonna talk about this at this time. Yeah, but a second principle I was I was thinking about as we were talking about, I was thinking through this boxing illustration. When you when you fight in a boxing realm, you want the most people possible to watch that fight. You want them all around the ring, you want the pay-per-view, you want the audience to see the glory of that fight. And when you fight in a relationship, you want no one. You want no one else around, at least in that first round. And we could talk biblically in a Matthew 18 model, there's a second round, third round where you do bring in others if necessary. But in that first round, you go right to the person and you don't want others around, which I think is just a good helpful reminder, though, for us, because I think we break that principle all the time in our fights. Like parents, when we fight in front of our kids, like we're driving in the car, using that illustration earlier. You know, when we have arguments with our spouses, you know, in front of kids, they're watching, they're observing. Um, when we're at church and we're upset with someone and we say something in the hallway with people all around, or we raise our hand and argue with the teacher in the Bible study class. You know, there's there's things like that. When you do things on a public forum, it immediately puts the person who is attacked against the ropes and they will become defensive like a caged animal and they will not respond with the fruit of the spirit. They will respond in their flesh, most likely, because you've put them in a place where they can't win. They're on the defensive and and and they don't even care about what you're saying. They just care that they got slugged and everybody's watching it. So you got to choose that.
SPEAKER_01And that's a good segue because what we need to talk about in fighting fair is what not to do, right? And so one of the first ones like you're making mention of is the fact that if you're gonna have an argument with somebody and and and walk through an argument with somebody, number one, take care to save face for them. Right. Um don't put them in a position where they're gonna be backed into a corner because the reaction will probably be worse than the than the conversation would be. Now, it kind of makes and if we want to put this in perspective, uh parents who are on who are listening to this, if you ever find find yourself saying your mother dot dot dot to your kids, you better you better slow your roll. Like you're you're a dead man at that point. But it it is a manipulative thing that we do, that we we utilize public pressure, peer pressure, to make ourselves look like a hero and to just absolutely trash the other person. And that's not fair. And that and that's a that is a way to really uh accelerate a a um an argument to be an actual fight. What are some other what are some other tactics that we need to try to avoid when we find ourselves getting into an argument?
SPEAKER_00I think the first one uh that came to my mind was you gotta pick your fight, even maybe before that, because some things as you maybe get triggered and you're thinking, I want to throw down right now over something, you gotta ask, is this even worth having a fight on? Because candidly, a lot of stuff we fight on, it's not even worth our breath. Like we just need to let it go. And there there is, that is a Christian principle. I mean, in the fact that doesn't mean you're passive, it means you're wise, you know, that you're ultimately not going to major on minors. And and if it's something that you can just let go and offer grace, which is a biblical idea, that you offer grace in that relationship to something that then there's a lot of wisdom in that because uh many fights, especially in relationships, couples that fight a lot, you know, not just the big things, but they just fight a lot. If you evaluated the quality of their fights, like what are those battles? Lots of times it's a lot of petty stuff. Yeah. Just really, really petty stuff.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I would and I would say too, kind of as a uh an addendum to that, if you find yourself tempted to continually be fighting about little things, I I think the question has to be, okay, what's the big thing that's causing this to happen? Because, you know, whenever you get home and you start arguing about whose whose turn it is to do the dishes, the argument is not really about the dishes. It's a it's about I'm tired and over over stressed and I feel that you are not taking care of what I need you to take care of. Um and uh usually, or if not always, the it comes it's because we only come from our perspective on it, which I would say is something to avoid, is is taking a on a single perspective when it comes to uh the argument. If you if you find yourself getting prepared to get into an argument with somebody and you have not considered what their perspective might be, you're uh at best you're gonna get embarrassed. At worst, you're gonna create a deeper fight because you're gonna have to dig yourself out of a hole. Right. Um because yeah, sometimes people are wrong, but you know, what's what what's real is that every time you have an argument with somebody, you're arguing with another human being that has the same issues, problems, hang-ups, difficulties that that you have. I always I always think about it from a hospital perspective that I I feel bad for these nurses and doctors that are working there. I mean, because that not only is their their work hard, but literally everybody that they're talking to and dealing with on a daily basis is having one of the worst days of their life. And there is this this expectation of, well, you should you sh I feel bad, so you should feel bad. And I mean that's just not ever gonna happen on a professional thing. But in the same way, when we when we are in you know in our jobs or um or in relationships, we so often neglect to consider what their perspective might be. Maybe that person is having one of the worst days of their lives. Maybe my coworker is is actively dealing with a child who's in the hospital or dealing with debts that they owe. Right. Um we just we tend to project things that are in the background and c and coat them with things that are really petty in order to satisfy that rage, that insecurity, and that anxiety that we that we build up. Um I would argue that's often what happens when people get into arguments about sports. It's a it's a it's an easy way to get in a fight with somebody that has that seems to have very little consequences. Um but I mean it is it is something that can happen. Um another thing that I think we we definitely should avoid when it comes to fighting fair is uh identifying areas of hurt in the other person and then bringing it into the fight. So uh you know what what can happen a lot of times um in relationships is uh a person coming from a divided home um one of the the partner in the in the argument can say can point to, hey, well, you know, you're just like dot dot dot. You're just like say you say their dad was was an alcoholic or something like that. Well you're just like your dad, you're irresponsible. Well now you've just called a whole other batch of problems in to create a bigger problem.
SPEAKER_00And to put that into the fighting uh illustration once again, it's a that when you fight fair, there's no cheap shots. You know, the referee's in there to make sure you don't throw any blows where you shouldn't. And it's the same thing, I think, in our, you know, verbal fights when we have those in our relationships is no cheap shots. Yeah, I mean, we know where each other hurt. Another area that that I would bring up as an example is we know uh where our say our spouse, our friend, our kid, where they failed us in the past. Uh, and what usually happens when you're not fighting fair is you will start bringing up a long inventory because everybody has those lists, and the Bible tells us to actually forgive one another. And forget those lists and to yeah, because God's done the same for us. But when we start fighting according to our flesh, we bring those lists out, and that is a cheap shot. It's it's bringing in stuff that Christ has already died for that they've already sought forgiveness on, and we bring those out, and then at that point, the person once again is so under attack they can't hear anything you have to say. So I agree. Don't don't throw cheap shots.
SPEAKER_01Well, and from a practical perspective, when you do that and you bring up stuff that happened before, especially if it's unrelated to the actual argument that's happening, um, what is that person supposed to do about that? It's it's already already been done. And you know, oftentimes that's where you get that that point in the conversation where it's like, I've already said I'm sorry for this, I don't know what you want. Um, that's a big key that somebody's not fighting fair in the context of a of an argument. That if the other person has actually dealt with it, made amends, but you're still bringing it up, like that there's what what possible positive could come from that? Now we do need to also though talk about it from the the angle of well, what if it really is applicable that I need to pull in something that that person did before in order to actually deal with the issue. Um so this is something that like say someone in your family has a gambling problem and the there's some issue that your family's having where you're running low on funds because that person keeps gambling in a way, it does become necessary to point out a pattern of behavior, right? But only if that pattern of behavior has not been addressed. If the person has been called out on it before and still refuses to do anything about it, to your point about the escalation, that is when you need to bring somebody else into it. Right. Where it has to be a third party s looking into it and saying, Hey, this thing that you're doing, like you need to understand that it is destructive. Um but I hope that I hope that you as the listener can kind of determine the difference between those two things where whereas one is drawing on problems that happened in the past that amends have tried to be made for and there has been growth, the other one being not having dealt with a problem before and refusing to do deal with that problem.
SPEAKER_00Well, because Jesus says there, he you just summarized it, but Matthew 18, you go to the person directly. If that doesn't work, you bring two or three other people with you uh into that. But then after that, the third step is you go to the church, is what what Jesus says in that model. But what happens a lot of times in arguments is people skip step one or two and they go to the church. Yeah. And and this is where it also gets dangerous is under the guise of prayer and Christian concern, we will start airing out our dirty laundry about our spouse or our kid or whoever to everybody. Anybody that would give us an easy. Behind closed doors. And what you're doing is you're damaging that person's reputation and you're dishonoring them publicly. And you haven't even spoken to them privately and not done it Jesus' way, which is private. Do that first private. If that doesn't work, once again, do it private and you get another person involved. And then if that doesn't work, then yes, you need to bring in pastors and church leadership into that process. But um lots of times we just don't like that route because that route's tedious. It takes time. Uh it takes humility on our part, not to just get, quote, an immediate win and we're actually working through it. But that's the whole point is well, what's what is the win in the fight? The win in the fight is not for you to win, it's for God to win.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and for truth to win.
SPEAKER_00And for truth to win, ultimately, and for that person to be restored and for things to be right and peace to be made through them uh them falling back into submission to Christ and wherever maybe they fell short.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And that's where I think a lot of times ironically, one of the best ways to fight fair is to start to embrace a little more bluntness in your your arguments where you say, This is the thing that is the the this is the thing that is the problem. This is how I perceive that you're dealing with it, and this is how it makes me feel. So at that point, there's nothing in that that's incontrovertible because they're all truths, they're all facts, and it gives you something to be able to work from. Um I mean, it is the nature of it. Now, you you may mention a second ago, you know, Matthew 18 is the big conflict passage in the in the New Testament. But uh the question I like we all we like to ask in each of these feedback episodes it relates with Jesus. So did do did Jesus fight fair when he would because I mean if we're looking at Jesus' example, he wasn't exactly I mean I think a lot of people like to look at him like this peace-loving kind of person. But I mean, this is the same guy who flipped over tables in the temple and uh who called uh the Pharisees whitewash tombs and stuff like that. So did Jesus fight fair?
SPEAKER_00It had to be fair because he was sinless. So if he's without sin, then obviously he got it right. But if you're looking at him as a case study, well, then what did he do that was right? Yeah. That'll be a really long, tedious case study for you to work through because there's so many different scenarios to your point. Um, sometimes he's flipping tables and he's just calling people what they are. Sometimes he wouldn't play their game. He just he'd sometimes he'd just ask a question back at them when they had asked a loaded question that he could have just gone postal on them for. Yeah, he would just respond with a simple statement or a reflective question back to them and then left them just completely befuddled and walk away. So Jesus sometimes he'd walk away, sometimes he'd engage, sometimes he would answer their question, but not the way they want it. Um, so what it comes down to ultimately is Jesus was one with the Father. He always would speak about that in the Gospel of John, that I and the Father are one. So he was so in tune, I believe, to the Lord's will on his life of how to handle each of those situations that he handled each of them with nuance and he handled them correctly. Yeah. And so it goes back full circle for us if we're going to fight fair, we have to be leaning into the Holy Spirit and we have to be able to hear his voice because those fights do look different in different contexts and different people and different times.
SPEAKER_01Well, and a couple of points in that. I mean, number one, you made that statement about Jesus and the Father being one. You know, one of the statements that it that occurs in the gospel is Jesus knew what was in the heart of men. And so he knew the people that he was arguing with, and beyond knowing them, he actually he loved and cared for them. And I think that's one of those things that we we tend to forget when Jesus kind of does, you know, press the nuclear button and start flipping tables and stuff. He knows who he's dealing with.
SPEAKER_00And he also wept for Jerusalem. Yeah. Yeah. That's the other thing.
SPEAKER_01And he wept for those people. And I will speak, you know, especially that situation. The reason why Jesus reacted that way is because he was protecting people. He saw people being actively taken advantage of. And because he loved those people, and because he honestly loved the guy loved the people who were scamming everybody, that had to end. And I think one of the things that we have to get into our minds is that if we're going to fight fair, that doesn't always mean that it's going to be a uh unemotionally charged kind of thing. I mean, when you sometimes when you're confronting evils or wrongs with other people, it's gonna be emotionally charged. But the the the difference is am I using that emotion to try and either destroy the person or or uh embarrass or humiliate or am I am I approaching this in such a way that I am trying to help I I am bringing it not just them but myself to the truth as well. It's that it's that statement speaking the truth in love. It doesn't mean being a jerk on purpose. That's the kind of thing that I kind of hesitate when I'm saying all this. Like I don't know that we need to emulate uh flipping tables and stuff. But the reality is where there is an evil, you know, it's not wrong to call evil evil. And it's it's not wrong to to with somebody that you love in a relationship to say the thing that I'm that is that is upsetting me is destructive to you and is destructive to me. Um and so a little bit of bluntness, a little bit of truth telling um is I think absolutely fair and fighting.
SPEAKER_00Well, and it's been said for many years, I have no idea who first said it, but they it's said that clarity is kindness and that and that's true, that your kindness many times is to your point, just saying it clearly, say it like it is, and don't say it charged as a personal attack, but it's for the interest of that person to try to help them. But but to your point, if you just dance around it and you don't ever actually say it and you aren't blunt about anything that is actually bothering you, well then nothing will ever get better. Yeah, um, you're just you're doing what we kind of talked about earlier of passive aggressiveness, and you're kicking the can of the problem down the road and it's just gonna come back and haunt you on another day.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I'll throw myself under the bus here from an evangelistic perspective. Um, you know, there was one time I was sitting down with a guy and he was dealing with some really difficult stuff, and you know, we were talking through the gospel and I was doing the the evangelical dance around the whole thing, you know, kind of hinting at the need for salvation, but not really out and saying it. And we'd been sitting there and talking for like 30 minutes. And then he says, you know, Matt, I want to stop you there. I feel like there's something that you want to tell me, but you're not telling me. And just tell me. What is it that I need to do? What what I I want to handle this problem. And so even though that was not a fight, it was something I was scared of. It was something I was I was nervous about, throwing myself out there. And so then I just said, okay, he asked for it, and I just shared the gospel with him. And since then, I mean, number one, he got saved that day, which was awesome. Uh, but uh beyond that, you know, it's one of those things that where where I've started started trying to practice that discipline of clarity and speaking truth uh without dancing around things because it it does it it complicates things. Yeah. Um and usually we do it to protect ourselves, but you know, it if you're protecting yourself for the case of of communicating with somebody, it's gonna wind up in a fight. It's gonna wind up in in um confusion, and wherever there's our God is not a god of confusion but of order. Um were there any other ways that Jesus fought fair? Like when you look at um, say for instance, the the um you could you could say even Nicodemus in a way that they're com I always think it's interesting looking in John 3, Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus, it's kind of an argument because Nicodemus is not necessarily agreeing with him when he's telling him all this stuff. Like because that is where that's the passage where Jesus says, Oh, you know, a person has to be born again, and Nicodemus is like, How can I be born again when I'm old? Like, I don't see that as the most positive interaction there.
SPEAKER_00Rich young ruler can put that same school of thought, same thing. He says, I've done all these things for you, and he says, Yeah, but you still lack something. You know, he takes them off.
SPEAKER_01And I think it's interesting that especially in that rich young ruler passage, it says that Jesus saw, looked at him, and loved him before he said the thing that he knew was going to wind up pushing him away. Yeah. Um and I think that that that is a tension in communication that we have to understand that there will be some times where we when we speak the truth in love, that they won't hear it, that they won't embrace it. That doesn't mean that we're not fighting fair, right? But it is it it is an observation and a truth that we have to be ready to embrace in communication.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you won't always win every little fight, and that's just the truth. They don't always receive it. Jesus, uh every one of his conflicts don't always end with a happy ending. And so I think that's just a good point to bring up. Um, I I would also throw out one more thing uh quickly, because I know you talk, we talked a lot about having that humility approaching the conflict, but I would also kind of close with this thought I wanted to reiterate is we have to have humility after the conflict. Yeah, because sometimes you fight and then you leave that fight and you realize that was not a nice fight. That was a wrong fight. I said things I shouldn't have said, I went down a road I shouldn't have. I had that cheap shot. I did fight in front of an audience, I didn't do it directly to them. Whatever your wrong was, go apologize for it. Yeah. Like when the fight's not done right and you you wrong someone in the fight, the fight's not over. That means actually the fight's still festering. You just are pretending it's over. So the best way to actually bring closure to that is to go back after the matter to say, hey, I am sorry specifically for what I did in this conversation and how I said this and that. Because God blesses that ultimately, and and that brings healing. And it's there's that proverb, I think it's Proverbs 15:1, that a soft answer turns away wrath. And it's that idea that if if you did someone wrong, just acknowledge it. Even if you got it wrong in the moment, it's not too late to get it right now. And so, even for like the listener, if you're hearing this, if you wronged someone with your words and you had a fight that was dirty, it was not fair, and you said something you regret, I don't care how long ago it was, go apologize. And that humility, God will always bless.
SPEAKER_01Well, and uh one one warning I'll give you also in that if you're apologizing, don't apologize in such a way that you insult the person. Where, like sometimes I see people do this, and then like, all right, fine, I have to apologize. I'm sorry you were offended by what I said. That's the I mean, that's the most backhanded apology in the in the world. It's like, oh, I'm sorry you're too sensitive to handle the truth. Be rec recognize, I'm sorry that I hurt you by the by the way that I was talking. Like that that is the truth of the nature. Uh and so anyway, that I think that's a really great point about uh apology. So as we as we close today, um, one other question I have on here is you know, how can uh uh fighting fair create redemption in relationships? Like how I mean, do is there value to it?
SPEAKER_00There always is value because there's growth. You know, coming out of that fight, ultimately there's growth is the goal. Growth is the goal. It's spiritual growth, it's relational growth, emotional growth. So if if it's done well, what's redemptive is God takes a broken situation and he brings something great from it, which is a closer relationship with each other, uh, because now you've cleared the air of a grievance, but also closer relationship if you did it spiritually right with God, that you've also repented of sin where maybe something went wrong and that you're now asking for God to help you in that. So absolutely God does redeem it, but it it comes back to that idea of humility, um, that God opposes the proud, but he gives grace to the humbles. We're told that twice in the New Testament. And so grace comes out of fighting fair and the fact that you are actually uh being spiritually formed through that process of doing it correctly, and your relationship will be strengthened as a as a result of doing it the right way. All right.
SPEAKER_01Well, friends, we hope this has been helpful for you. And if you're in an active bot boxing match with uh someone that you love, well, our prayer and hope for you is that you'll be able to fight fair, that you'll fight uh and argue in such a way that you bring redemption in your relationships and that you that you ultimately wind up arguing and interacting and communicating like Jesus did. So thanks for joining us today on the podcast. Uh, we look forward to seeing you next time as we continue our feedback series. And take care, and we'll see you soon on the Citizen ATX podcast.