Citizen ATX
Citizen ATX
Christmas Unwrapped: The Magi
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"That Feeling When: you realize the 'Three Kings' weren't kings, and we don't know how many there were." 😮 Of all of the people mentioned in the Christmas story, the Magi are perhaps the most misunderstood. However, their story is full of examples of finding purpose in the miraculous wonder of God's plan. Join Matt, Nathan, and Stephen as they discuss the incredible story of the Magi.
Hello there and welcome to the Citizen ATX Podcast. My name is Matt Gillum, and I'm glad that you are joining us in the midst of this Christmas season as we are working through the series unwrapping Christmas. And so today with me in the theater, the studio, our room that has a bunch of stuff in it, uh is Nathan Wood. Hello, Nathan.
SPEAKER_00Hello, hello.
SPEAKER_01And then also Stephen Vaughn. Hello, Stephen. Hello. And so in this series, what we have been doing has been, I I guess in a way, deconstructing Christmas, right? To use a postmodern term. To look back at the reality of all of these things that we talk about and say and sing about that we may not actually know the meaning from, right? Like what the heck is a partridge in a pear tree, right? You know, and that's a later episode, actually. Spoilers. But that you know, there's not a lot of Jesus. Come on, man. But you know, there's not a lot of places in our life where we go around speaking jargon a lot that we don't understand the word the meaning of uh just because it it makes us feel foolish. But for some reason we tend to do this around Christmas. And so today, uh last week we talked about the reality of angels and the heaven the heavenly host, is it made or D or is it an army? Uh and the reality of like the the world turned upside down from Luke 2. Uh, but this week we're going to be looking at Matthew chapter 2. And so uh Nathan, would you read for us from Matthew chapter 2, verses 1 through 12, and we'll be introduced to this story.
SPEAKER_00Now, after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, Magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying, Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star in the east and have come to worship him. When Herod the king heard this he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. Gathering together all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Messiah was to be born. They said to him, In Bethlehem of Judea, for this is this has been written by the prophet. And you, Bethlehem, land of Judah, are by no means least among the leaders of Judah, for out of you shall come forth a ruler who will shepherd my people, Israel. Then Herod secretly called the Magi and determined from them the exact time the star appeared, and he sent them to Bethlehem and said, Go and search carefully for the child, and when you have found him, report to me, so that I too may come and worship him. After hearing the king they went on their way, and the star, which had been seen in the east, went on before them until it came and stood over the place where the child was. When they saw the star they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy. After coming into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell to the ground and worshipped him. Then, opening their treasures, they presented to him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh, and having been warned by God in a dream not to return to Herod, the Magi left for their own country by another way.
SPEAKER_01Alright, and so this passage, this story, uh is often what's called the three kings, right? And you had you know uh if you grew up in church, you may have grown up singing We Three Kings, um, which, you know, interesting, interesting fact. I mean, it's pretty pretty uh uncommon to ever sing the was it the fourth verse of that song talking about myrrh. Uh if you've never looked it up, look it up. It's uh it's pretty it's pretty metal going in going into that one. But you know, in this passage, you don't ever hear the word three kings. You th you're there's this kind of weird, weird setup of that. And so, first of all, one one thing that I want uh to bring up is where the heck and what the heck is Bethlehem, right? And so, you know, we uh I think we you know little town of Bethlehem and all that kind of stuff. Um why why would the react why would they talk so much about it here at the beginning of this passage? Um, you know, it it was it a big place? Was it a you know a country bumpkin? What we me what what is it?
SPEAKER_00No, I mean it wasn't much. What was it uh what was the what was the quote whenever someone said the Messiah had come from uh from Bethlehem? I'm trying to remember it was one of the apostles said something along the lines of the Can anything good, but that one was in it.
SPEAKER_01Can anything good come from Nazareth?
SPEAKER_00That's right, it was Nazareth, excuse me. Yeah, but uh but I mean you have the significance of I mean they all knew when they went when he at when Herod went and asked the Pharisees, which leaders, hey, where's the Messiah coming from? They all immediately said Bethlehem.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that passage they quote is from the book of Micah in the Old Testament. So they knew hundreds of years before Jesus came that that was gonna be the place. Now, by the time that Jesus came around, Bethlehem was not really a big place, which I think is interesting. I mean, they call it the city of David, um, but the reason they call it the city of David is because that's where he's from. So, you know, um let's think about it this way like Nolan Ryan, if we had the city of Nolan Ryan, it would be Alvin, Texas, right? Yeah. Well, you know, Nolan Ryan was a Hall of Famer and awesome, but Alvin still ain't much, right? It's not much gonna bring you there. Uh same deal, like with uh if you go into Arkansas, Hope, Arkansas, the the hometown of William Jefferson Clinton. Uh hope I mean no no offense to those hope people, those hopeful people out there, but uh hope there's not much there in hope. Just a bunch of watermelons. Just a bunch of watermelons. So, you know, you have this place that had the pedigree of being the place where King David of Israel was from. Uh just kind of other other background trivia, right? The root the word Bethlehem means house of bread. So there you go. It was a it was a I guess a grain town. Well, he is the bread of life. Yeah. Up we go. Well, there you go. You just cut connection. Just cut some up on connection. Yeah, and actually the own the other place where it really uh features in the Bible is in the book of Ruth. That's where she moved back to with her mother-in-law. So you have all these things around this little place. It's a place that's packed with meaning, but at the time that that uh Jesus is born there, there's not much really going on there. Um the reason why Joseph winds up having to go back is because of this registr this registration that's happening, right? That uh it says in the it talks about in the book of Luke that there was this census that was carried out. And I uh Nathan and I were joking before the podcast that you know the reason why these Romans did censuses is to be able to tax people correctly. And the reason why people participated in the census is uh in a Roman legal aspect, if you didn't participate in the census, they would steal all your stuff and make you a slave. So you know motivated.
SPEAKER_00More people would pay their taxes if the IS just took your and everything you owned and made you a slave. I feel like you probably pay your taxes. Yeah, probably more likely. More likely, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, so you you have then this place that is not really well regarded, um, but this is what where where Jesus ends up coming from, fulfilling this prophecy. And so uh I guess one of the things that's interesting, Nathan, and I I don't know if you you want to speak to this, but if they knew that he was in the backyard, now, and I wonder from reading this passage, yeah, because I I think that I think that they knew what the Magi were asking, uh, why would they not go to Bethlehem? I mean it's only like 17 miles south of Jerusalem.
SPEAKER_00I don't I mean I I think it's important to remember that you're coming off of 400 years of silence, right? From Malachi, like this 400 years, and so I mean I think they were just spiritually in such a bad place that I mean because the Magi's basically come up and it says they said in verse 2, where is he who has been born king of the Jews? So it's like if there was even a chance that the guy that your entire religion and faith has been preparing you for is there, I feel like you would make the journey, but instead they're just like, Well, you guys go check it out and let us know. You know, it'd be cool if that was a thing that happened, but I'm gonna hang out here. We got dinner tonight with the boys. I don't know, what are you gonna do? I mean, right? It's like the cowboys are on that.
SPEAKER_01Why would you not go and check this out? I mean, I do think it's kind of similar to the whole thing we're talking about with Nolan Ryan. It's that if you heard the Messiah was born in Alvin, Texas, it's like, yeah, maybe.
SPEAKER_00I feel like the difference is if you if you had prophecy in your religious text that told you he was gonna be born in Alvin, Texas, then you'd probably believe it, right?
SPEAKER_02It's like the difference between like an alien invasion where they tell us where they're gonna be.
SPEAKER_00We're gonna get you coming in right here. When they ask immediately they respond. There's no like, oh well, Bethlehem's too small to have Messiah. It's like oh no, Bethlehem, it's a small thing.
SPEAKER_01Well they knew it was, yeah. Well, but also consider who's bringing it. Because when we when we talk about these magi, we need to talk about what they're actual uh magicians. Magicians, yeah. So you trust them guy who pulls a rabbit out of a hat. They were that's what they were doing. It was the thumb trick. It was the disappearing. It's not it's not a trick, it's an illusion. Yeah. So I mean it that that you're you're partially correct, right, about what these people were. So a magi in this context um is not a king. And so the so sorry, we three kings. That's a nice nice thought. It also never says three in there as well. Don't cut ahead, man.
SPEAKER_00You're jumping ahead. I'm sorry, I'm full of information.
SPEAKER_01A magist, a magus or whatever. I don't know how it's pronounced, but uh what what this role was is that in um ancient uh Middle Eastern courts, you would have people who were professional astrologers and dream interpreters. So you see this, uh uh you see this in the book of Daniel, especially in the Persian court, that they had these guys who were professionals. And in fact, Daniel, because they didn't really understand what he was doing, was one of these guys. They said, Well, you interpret dreams, so you get to be a magi, right? So these were these guys would be important. They'd be people who these uh kings would rely upon for advice and wisdom because that ostensibly they had a connection to the uh other world, to the spiritual world. But yeah, I mean they were people who studied the stars trying to figure out what the future held. So you have this group of people in Jerusalem that are hyper, hyper religious. I mean, they they hung around the temple, they I mean they kept the even even in a silent 400 years, they had continued to try to keep the worship of God. Then all of a sudden you have these pagan astrologers who come up out of nowhere and start telling you, hey, there your Messiah was born. Uh and especially you think about whenever uh he's talking to King Herod, and this guy says, Well, someone's been born king of the Jews, and King Herod's like, Well, that's my job. Like, so uh so what? You gonna want to tell me again about that? Yeah, and so I mean I think that that's a large part of why they discounted it, is because they don't they didn't trust somebody who was from another culture. Now Herod appears to enough to be I mean, I think he was just a sneaky guy and very paranoid, and I think history bears that out. Um but you know, in this case, you have these messengers that are distrusted because of their background. Um I think I think that's an and how so how do we square that? Like how I mean obviously I think for most of you listening, you you would look at astrology and um some of these you know pagan these pagan practices because uh ostensibly these people weren't Christians or or Jews, they were they were some other religion, probably probably from uh Persia and and Iran. Um so what how do we square that with the fact that they came and we're telling them, hey, this star appeared and we think it's showing your king?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean I I think when you look at it for me, I think it's just look at I mean whenever Jesus came, it was the shift and we eventually see it to where hey this is gonna open up to the Gentiles. And I think number one, I think it it's I think it point towards that.
SPEAKER_01It does.
SPEAKER_00But also I think it points towards that we talked about in this the last the last podcast, but when God's word is when truth is spoken, people recognize it. Right. And so here you have guys who they don't they don't know the Jewish. I'm assuming, I mean, of course I'm making an assumption here, I'm assuming they have not religiously studied the Jewish text.
SPEAKER_01Probably not.
SPEAKER_00And they probably don't know where what who about the Messiah, but they see this and they has a recognition of oh wow, this is this is significant.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because I I think if we're if we're equating this to m to our modern time, uh why the the magi in this text serve like what scientists would for us, where they're able to explain that they were used to explain why things happen in their world. And and so in their case, they weren't using science, they were using astrology, but they would still be these kinds of people that would go and look at things and then make determinations and interpretations based off of what they've seen and then give advice. I mean, so thus why they call wise men. Um and so in this case, you know, I think this is an excellent example of how while the medium that they were using, astrology, is not is definitely not of God, and the divination is you know, it's not something we're supposed to do, God in his grace cut through that and still gave them a star to follow. Um and I think, you know, in a lot of ways, it's the same thing in our world now where you have a lot of systems and beliefs of people that are not are not a Christ, yet because God's word is truth and truth cuts through the darkness, that there are times where God reveals himself in spite of what they're what they're practicing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and how many times have you heard somebody trying to set out to disprove the Lord or disprove creation or whatever it is, and they come to find I mean Sean McDowell is a great example that he wrote a whole book about it. Yeah, it's got a human invention plug. Yeah, great book. Um but yeah, I mean there's it's interesting to me that this is almost I don't know if you could say the first story, but it's definitely one of the earlier stories of like a scientist who's not even looking for the Lord or may even be looking for something similar to that, but suddenly the Lord reveals himself and it's like, oh my goodness, this is this is way more real than anything else I've seen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I mean it it's I again we talked about last episode about the the idea of the world turned upside down, and that's absolutely what's happening here. That instead of the the people who are ingrained deeply ingrained in their Jewish uh religious heritage, you have people that have no connection to that being the ones that are discovering the proof of it. Um you know that I think that is a deeply meaningful thing for us that um and I think when we talk about the way that we approach church in general, a lot of people will look at church and say, ah, that's something for a bunch of you know religious-y kind of people, like uh people who love poetry and stuff like that. But I'm a you know, a data scientist or a uh or a um I don't know, phlebotomist or a doctor or a nurse or uh physician, uh physic uh a physics professor, you know, that all of the world of STEM. I mean, even you know, you like your wife is a veterinarian, right? You know, there there I think there can sometimes be a divide for them when it comes to church and religion, where it's like it is worshiping a Christ because it's like, well, okay, I do that kind of thing when I'm at church, but when I'm outside, then I have to have to live in a completely different world. Um and in this, I I don't I don't think it does not and it does not appear to me that these guys divided off from what their profession was, their occupation was, and this discovery of Christ, but rather Christ revealed himself through it and called them away. So here's the here's another interesting thing to consider about this that these guys I I doubt they had paid time off from their job. I mean if you work for if you work as an advisor in a king's court, you do what they say you're gonna they tell you to do or you die. And I mean it I mean you see that in Daniel where those guys uh yeah, they they didn't have good life expectancy. But you know, these guys are risking life and limb to follow this truth and even losing their job to really pursue it.
SPEAKER_00And so um I think on top of that, just the I think sometimes we we kind of forget we live in an age where where there's easy access to travel. Yeah. I mean, just yesterday, Ellie and I went to the store and and I was mapping on the way back home because it wasn't we were up in an area we don't normally go to, and it was set for whatever reason it set on walking as if I wanted to walk, you know, home. And walking home, it was like it was gonna be two and a half hours if I was to walk, but it was a 15-minute drive. Right. And so it's like, I mean, these guys were not, they weren't down the road. Like they traveled, like they had to prepare, they had to pack supplies, they probably had a caravan. Like this was not as simple as, oh, let me just uh walk over to my friend Steve's house and check out this star. I mean, these guys were putting in a lot of time, effort, and money, uh, and just a physical toll of just traveling down uh all the way down to Jerusalem and then to Bethlehem. Yeah. I mean, it was a significant commitment from them, and it wasn't like uh just yeah, just it wasn't like a one-day journey, and it was a lot of time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and in fact, when you when you dig into the story and you see how Herod goes freaking nuts afterward and has a bunch of people killed, it looks like it might have taken them about two years or uh somewhere anywhere from zero to two years to be able to come and find so the magi were probably not arriving the night that Jesus was born. So sorry sorry, Nativity Saint.
SPEAKER_00I do think it's it's funny because I think sometimes when we read the Bible, we think of things as happening in like success, like immediate succession. It's like Jesus was born, and then the magi were like there that night, and it's like, no, it it took time because you see it in there that it says that Herod asked, When did the star appear? Which, if they are within two years, that probably is why he was like, Okay, everybody within two years, we're gonna kill all those babies, just because I'm not gonna be usurped by uh by this Messiah and king of the Jews, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It only took me five minutes to read it though.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was one verse after the other, so why it had to be immediate, right?
SPEAKER_01Well, so I think you know, one of the one of the big points in this is that you know, when when we come to things like Christmas and come to things like worship of Christ and things like that, you know, the question then has to become, you know, can I still worship God even if my career is not necessarily very Christian-y? Like if if I if I am a a um chemical engineer, how can how can I honor God or worship God through that? Or I mean, even and I'm I know I'm kind of putting you on the spot here, but you know, your wife being Nathan, your wife being a veterinarian, is there a way through the study and the medical help of animals that she's able to worship God? I mean, have y'all ever chatted about that or thought thought through that?
SPEAKER_00Um, not so much that, but I would say it's an interesting perspective because you know, when she was in you do this, she's taken a lot, she had a bachelor's of science. And so she's done a lot of biology and a lot of chemistry. And so, you know, with that, you typically see that kind of stuff pointing more towards my education, towards evolution, towards uh towards, hey, this is how it actually was, not the creation account. And so you kind of see that kind of stuff pop up more where it's actually she knows a lot more about some of that stuff than I do, just off the top of my head, because she had to take hours upon hours of it. I mean, she had a she she majored in uh she had a double major in like chemistry and biology. I mean, right? It's like I like to joke with her because I also have a bachelor's of science, but my bachelor's of science, my le my concentration was leadership, uh while where she actually studied science, but we have the same degree, but now she's got a doctorate, so it doesn't matter. But um yeah, I would say not so much uh playing out like in that, but more so in the education and seeing it and still kind of having that faith and knowing what she believes, even though it's probably not the most popular thing amongst a lot of the people who are probably be scientists and kind of in that profession.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I would actually point us back to the like science and faith from the last series, that idea of does science and faith play together or not? And you know, I think uh there's a very obvious I mean the point we got to in that was science actually most of the time actually proves religion in a lot of the cases.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, one of the quotes that sticks with me is from Galileo mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe. And so you know, it's i I think one of the things that we can look at in this is, you know, if God as God's truth is all uh as truth, all truth is God's truth, ultimately we can see the workings of the divine, even in the particularly mundane, where we see the mirac the miracle of our biological lives, the fact that we're able to to the the have our place in the universe, the the ability for that of the way I mean the way that people work together and the way that language works. You know, I think ultimately what this all calls us to is to looking at how has God revealed himself and these truths with with which we live our lives, and then how can I turn and give glory to him from that? Um because the reality is as we work through these different things, they do point toward a creator, they do point toward a designer, they do point toward a person and not a blank force. So um anyway, so I think I think that's an important thing for us to pull from this. The other thing that we need to talk about, obviously, because we get to the end, is why they're offering gold, Frankenstein, and myrrh, right? Frankincense, sir. Growing up, I always called it Frankenstein. So I mean, uh we we all know, I think we I hope we all know what gold is, and you know, highly, highly expensive uh gift. But y'all know where uh Frank what frankincense and myrrh are?
SPEAKER_02Any any ideas that it's on the periodic table?
SPEAKER_00No, um oh, I do know, but it's not coming to me. But isn't it like Frankincense? It's almost like uh a perfume. It's like a very expensive like oil perfume.
SPEAKER_01It is, yeah. So it's it's actually a tree sap from uh the yet. It's very very very small region in uh near Somalia and Yemen. Um it's it's from a tree that can only be harvested, I think, like every three years, and they they basically cut the bark, it bleeds sap, and that sap is the frankincense. Uh it's very rare, very, very expensive, um, and the um it it's in very high demand because ultimately a lot of times it was used to symbolize and represent the prayers of people. So, like if you ever burn incense, there's a couple of things about it. Number one, it's very strong, very pungent, so there's no way that. That you can't recognize that it's there in the room with you. Number two, when you see it burning, you see the smoke rising, and that's and what that does is it again pictures this idea of prayers going up toward heaven. So frankincense was used in the temple and still used in the Catholic Church as a way to um to illustrate these these prayers. Um but it was something that was a very highly valuable gift. Um then you have myrrh, which is the third one. Any guesses on that, what what myrrh is?
SPEAKER_00It's it's still incense and perfume, right? It's just a different, it's just a different type of button. But it's myrcan. Myrkin, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But wait, there's myrrh. Um so myrrh, yeah, it it's uh it it does it had a lot of use as a perfume, as like a rub-on perfume type thing. It was also used on dead bodies. So uh you you see that in uh uh the story uh after Christ has has pat has died, has been crucified, that they prepared his body with myrrh and other uh spices, right? Could there be a connection? Could there be a connection? Wow, yeah. No, but it it again, it's a similar thing. It's a it's a uh kind of sap that that grows that comes out of a certain kind of tree in the middle of the desert. And but it smells really, really good. And the funny thing is, when I was a when I was a youth leader, one of uh I I thought it'd be a good idea to give my my teachers actual frankincense and myrrh to uh you know illustrate the smells and the aromas and all that. Um and one of my teachers thought it was a good idea to set it on fire. Um and so the room that he did it in smelled like patchouli for like six months. Patchouli and burnt hair. Not a good, not a good uh but so why uh so usually we look at the this is part of the reason why they say, well, there's three kings. Well, there's three gifts, so it's a lot easier in a in a nativity scene to have only three people instead of a whole crowd of crowd of uh wise men. And so you had these three kinds of gifts given. But I mean, you know, why why these three particular kind of gifts?
SPEAKER_00I think one, I mean, I think a big part of it is that they're probably just the most expensive kind of gifts that you can have at that time, right? Some of them. And so I think one, I think you see the value. Um and I find it interesting that these, as we talked about, these wise men, these pagans who are are not a part of the Jewish faith, they come and there is a recognition, even in looking at a baby, yeah, there is a recognition that it that this baby is worthy of worship and gifts, yeah, right? That this not like a okay, maybe one day he'll be a king of the Jews, cool, and they just leave. No, like they give, they sacrifice and they give expensive gifts. Um, and then I think obviously you can look at the uh I'm and I'm sure this is I've done zero study of this, but just considering the fact that at birth you see a gift of myrrh, which is also later on gonna be. I mean, I I think obviously there's you can point towards there's a symbolism there. There's a symbolism there of like what he what Jesus came to do, right? That even as a baby, like the purpose was to eventually die on the cross.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I mean there there is that from the very beginning. And you have so with the frankincense part, that idea of this high priest kind of uh kind of person that would stand between God and man and and uh and communicate the prayers of men to God. And uh, you know, for one thing, from a practical standpoint, I'm sure Mary was pretty grip pretty happy about that. It's like, all right, we've got a college fund here, we're ready to go. My kid's going to rice. All right. So, yeah, I mean you you have you have this this gift, but I think it's one thing I think that's kind of uh interesting in it is you see the combination of time, talent, and treasure here in these magi. That number one, obviously the treasure, they offered them treasures. Number two, they left from their jobs, they left from the place where they were employed to go pursue him. And number three, they took their talents by using you know their astrological stuff to serve God. And so in this, when we when we hear about these magi, I think a lot of times we try to boil it down to, well, just give give God your best, which I think is true. I mean, we you know, you don't uh when it comes to Christmas time, you don't give your uh you don't give your kid like a half-eaten sandwich or something like that. Yeah, which by the way, that there's a video out there by I think it was Jimmy Kimmel where it's uh parents videotaping giving their kids terrible presents. It's fantastic. Oh yeah, those aren't good. But I mean when we when we when we look at at uh the way that our families and our Christmases work, we usually give them good things. We usually don't prank our own kids. But then on top of that, understanding that these magi get in giving the best that they had, it wasn't just the it wasn't just their treasures, but even though treasures were a part of that, it was also their path, their devotion and their time to pursue them, and then also their expertise. That this was something that they were they were they were worshiping by doing what they knew to the best of their ability. And I think that that is something for all of us that I think with the gifts and the the treasures that we have with the time that we have. I mean, are are we are we participating with these magi and laying them at the feet of Jesus? Um are we cutting across the the culture, the consumerism, the selfishness of that's so often implicit in Christmas? And and also just even the even the the barriers of well I don't know all that much about about the Bible and about theology. I mean realistically, one of the reasons why I why I wanted to do this series is because I get frustrated with the kinds of the kinds of things that we say and sing at Christmas time. Because we sing a an awful like Hark the Herald Angel Sing. I was like, there's at least four words in that that people don't know what they mean. Yeah. Uh I mean it it's it's a I think it's four, maybe three. Um I mean there are we we we go back to language and vocabulary that was used three hundred and fifty years ago and have an expectation that people are gonna know what they're talking about. And I feel I what what I what I what I uh get sad about is that Christmas what we saw in the shepherd passage, what we see in the Magi passage is meant for all people to approach, not for those who are in the know. In the two in these two podcasts that we've done so far for Christmas, neither one of these groups, the shepherds nor the magi, had any kind of implicit connection to be able to go to the the foot of the foot of the savior, and yet they did. And so I I think with this, as as as our l as you as a listener are are participating in this conversation, you know, you need to know there's no barrier between you and you and you and God. But what can be what you can do as a barrier is is separate yourself from him. Um so yeah, I mean, and uh Nathan, you think that's correct, wrong, what I mean?
SPEAKER_00I think absolutely. I think we talked about it a little bit last week, I think this week's perfect example that Christ came for all. Yeah and He, you know, He came for the lowest of what we would consider in the earth, right? And I mean if you're looking at a a Jewish religious leader, Magi from the East, I mean, they're not even in con they're they're not in consideration for anything, right? And and here they are worshiping at the feet of Jesus while they while religious leaders couldn't walk, you know, 20 miles down the road to to even see if the Messiah actually was born. Um, and one thing that I think that stands out to me, and we talked about giving Jesus your best, but I think it's important to realize uh one thing this this passage speaks to me about is that worshiping and following Jesus comes at a cost. Um, and that it's not free. It's not something like if you're if you're following Jesus in your life and there's never a time of sacrifice or change or denial or or anything like that, then you're probably not following Jesus well. Because the one thing you see in scripture is this, I mean, they're there's a cost to what they're doing, um, not only in terms of sacrifice of time, of money, like talk about their job, but also let's talk about their now. This is not for us today as much, but in other countries it is right now, their safety. Yeah, I mean, they were told by Herod to come back and talk to me. Yeah, and then it says they during a dream, the Lord told them, Hey, no, go around a different way. Like, if Herod had caught them, they would have been put to death.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right? I mean, there was a there was the safety aspect as well. Yeah, and so I think that's one of those things that I think that stands out to me is that now we we live in a time and in a place in America where really there is not persecution for our faith. Right. Like outside of someone maybe saying some mean stuff about us, for the most part in America, you're you're not going to be hunted down, you're not gonna be thrown in prison, you're not gonna be attacked like that. However, when following God, there needs to, there should be some sacrifice and some in that.
SPEAKER_01And I think a lot of that's because he's worth it, right?
SPEAKER_00Like, he's worth the sacrifice, absolutely, but there should be some.
SPEAKER_01Well, and you think you th also let's think about it this way that you know, if you are if you're gonna go to a pizza meal and you go to a CC's buffet, you know, you you're not gonna sacrifice a lot, but that's because it's not worth it. Like it it's bad pizza. You'll eat a lot of it, but you're you're not it's not really much worth it. And a lot of people, like if you say, hey, I'm going to CC's, they'll say, Yeah, no thanks. That's that's garbage pizza. Um, so much hate.
SPEAKER_00First of all, let's let's watch our mouth on the podcast on the oldest because we're in church right now. So we eat a lot of those pizzas to pizza.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But then on the other side, you have a Pizza Hut stuffed crust pizza. All right. That's your example of what's probably not. Okay.
SPEAKER_00I'll say I'll say at least go double Dave's or something here.
SPEAKER_01Here in Austin, 31 via 313 pizza. It's delicious, but it's expensive. But it's like, I know that if I'm going to do this, it's worth that sacrifice of an extra $10. Like because I could eat all the pizza I want for $5.99. I don't know if it's still that inflation. And pigeon it hard. It's like $7.99 these years. Versus going to a great pizza place and getting a great pizza, but it costing $25. It's like, well, but it's worth it. And is that and ultimately I think that's in our in our lives, that that's part of the reason why this idea of giving uh giving to toward God is is gotten messed up because there is this idea of, you know, I don't get we don't give because we don't think he's worth it. We don't we think it's more worth it for us to keep our things and keep ourselves secure rather than to offer them open-handedly to the to the God who gives it in the first place. Yeah. Um and I mean, and and the real I mean, and and people might challenge that, but that's the reality of the deal. You know, you give toward things that you believe in. And you don't give to things that you don't believe in. Um and so I mean ultimately I think I think when we when we look at the magi, they come, they bring their best, they bring their trend their talent, their time, their treasure, they lay them at the feet of Jesus. And you know, friends, as you're considering the Christmas season, don't don't look at Christmas as an arbitrary type thing, just as a another thing. I mean, this is an opportunity for you to give your best to God. Your best, uh the best of your love, the best of the way that you talk with your families about Christmas time. I think one of the one of the things that we we as parents struggle with sometimes is talking about Christmas with our kids in any kind of real context. Um, it's easier to talk about some magical elf man who sneaks down your chimney and throws throws stuff that's gonna wind up in the garbage and sit two months into into stockings versus the fact that you know God provided a way for me through this through this this baby and the generosity that God has shown me, I want to show to you. Um it is a it is a very different thing and it and it has a lot more fullness to it than we than uh than otherwise we might might experience.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I I think the thing that really interests me the most about this story is that this is really the Magi's first religious experience, at least with God, and that they are the way that they are kind of pushing themselves and going through as much as they are. In my life, a lot of the times where I feel like I'm I guess getting the most spiritual hire, connecting the most with God, are usually times when I go back to man, what did you do for me in the beginning? And right though that moment and that feeling of when I was saved and and just the overwhelming, overwhelming feelings behind all of it.
SPEAKER_01I think the people who struggle to get the most out of Christmas are are older believers are not people who've been believers for longer. Yeah. Young bel people who have been believers for a shorter amount of time, gosh, they get they they bring joy to the table. They they know they know what they've been rescued from, they remember what they've been rescued from, and the response is joy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That I get to be included in this versus those of us who've been, you know, in church forever and have been singing these same songs over and over again and doing the same thing every year, it becomes drudgery because we've forgotten we've forgotten where we came from.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01We forgot that we were once strangers, you know. I mean, it it's like when you walk into a a um a group that is has been around forever. I mean, uh they'll they'll complain about the environment, they won't enjoy where what's going on around them. But someone who is newly included into a group is gonna appreciate everything. And so I I think for for us, we need to consider this that at Christmas time. I one of my favorite songs about all this is that um is O Holy Night, because there's a line in it that says, uh, long lay the world in sin and error pining till he appeared and the soul felt its worth. You know it's important for us, and then he even goes on the thrill of hope, a weary world rejoices, for yonder breaks a new and glorious morn. It's a reminder that we once were in that midnight, we once were in that place of of of darkness and doubt and fear, and in the con and into the into the midst of that, whether without us being you know, lear theologians or uh these doers of good, that even then uh Christ came for us and died for us and gave us that free offer of grace. So I mean I just I I think perspective is really what we uh most of us have to be able to grasp at this Christmas season that what and that's what where the magi challenge us that these pagan scientists, these pagan astrologers, these magicians, that they have they have a they have a an excellent grasp of who Jesus is, even though all of these trappings of what a long life, long life religious life would have, um that they don't have them. So anyway, I think I think this challenge this story challenges us for sure. Yeah. And so, well, guys, anything else before we close out for a day?
SPEAKER_00No, just what do you value? I mean, you value if you value Jesus, I mean it's gonna change the way that your life looks, you know. Yeah, we do it for everything else, right? We'll we'll sacrifice a whole lot for a sport or for uh for a team, we'll pay for season tickets and we'll sacrifice our time, our effort. Air Jordans, yeah, whatever it is, we'll we'll sacrifice for a lot of things, but a lot of times when it comes to Jesus, I think so many of us, I think we kind of lose the thread. And I think for us it just kind of becomes a yeah, well, uh, I might I don't know if I have time to read the Bible this week. I don't have time to actually do the things that God's called me to do. And so I think this story is a great reminder of well, remember the value of and like you talk about the darkness you were in. That reminds you of the goodness of God and why you why he's worthy of worship, right?
SPEAKER_01So well, friends, as we as you move through the Christmas season, remember this saying that I guess has kind of become cliche, but wise men still seek him. And I think for us, I hope that that's I hope that's what your goal this Christmas season is that you continue to seek after Christ. Thank you for joining us, and we look forward to seeing you next time on the Citizen ATX podcast.